Colockum Spike rule change?

[colockumelk]

Thats a big "IF" and you maybe be hoping for a while.

What do you mean by that.  Please explain.

[Skyvalhunter]

"IF" we go permit only for 3 years.

[SpotandStalk]

I have hunted the Colockum area (various game, throughout the year) all my life.  I usually just read posts and choose not to reply, but have to bring up a point that I feel is being missed by WDFW.  Yes, the Colockum herd is on a downward trend, primarily due to low spike recruitment in the Quilomene unit and the eastern half of the Naneum unit, BUT the numbers that DFW produces based on fly overs are no where near accurate for branch bulls.  They base the counts on fly overs done from the timberline (about Colockum Pass Rd) east to the river.  The migration patterns, particularly of mature bulls has changed, A LOT OF MATURE BULLS are not even being seen by DFW, and I (being selfish here) should have an opportunity to pursue them.  I have a serious problem with DFW managing a entire herd (from the Columbia River to the Alpine Lakes) based on habits in GMU 329.
Whichever option DFW chooses (personally I think road closures is the easiest and am in somewhat favor of a permit only system for the Quilomene, true spike is just stupid) the option will be implemented for Quilomene, Naneum, Teanaway, and Mission....sorry, but the Teanaway is no where near similar to the Quilomene and shouldn't be managed the same, not even the Naneum and Quilomene can be considered comparable.  Personally I think the boundaries of GMU 329 need to be changed to include a few canyons west, and this would allow for a intense management of that particular unit, which IMHO is the only problem.

[colockumelk]

"IF" we go permit only for 3 years.

Oh okay.  Yeah I sort of agree, it seems that when they take something from us they never give it back.  IE the late muzzle loader elk season.  We do need to prepare for the permit only thing, since I was told the "true spike"only thing is their last resort before that.  Which is a stupid idea.  I think we can all agree the only thing that will do is create a bunch of accidental poachers. 

Spot and stalk you are pretty much dead on.  I do not know why the Teanaway is being included in the spike only thing.  Yeah 328/329 have a combined harvest of 300 spikes a year but the Teanaway only has like a 30-40 spike per year harvest.  Their recruitment is fine. 

I understand many do not want a permit only.  But the truth of the matter is the area has too much road access and is too open, and the rifle guys are just knocking the piss out of the spike herd.  Muzzle Loaders aren't in there and the bow guys don't harvest very many spikes.  I'm not trying to play one group against another but it's just facts.  Look at the harvest reports. 

We all know that there is a massive problem with spike recruitment.  Road access would help out but that will take time.  Let me ask you all this.  If so many hate the idea of permit only would anyone rather have the rifle season in there taken away and replaced with a muzzle loader season? 

This would dramatically increase the recruitment of spikes and guys could still have a general season.  Shoot even maybe make a modern/muzzle loader season where guys can use scopes any type of bullet and the muzzle loaders that are sealed to the elements.  What do you all think?

[colockumelk]

If you want to help out please send this petition to the game department address listed below.  If you don't like exactly how it's worded please still send off a letter asking for permit only for three years.  So we can build the herd up while also taking care of the other core issues that plague the Colockum elk herd.

Please send the below message to the wildlife commission.  Things need to happen as soon as possible.  We are on a time crunch so we need max participation.  The Colockum elk herd needs you.  So please carefully read what's below.  If you agree then please send it.  If not then don't.  If there's something you'd like to change in it then let me know and I'll change it.  So please for the sake of the elk herd send it to the commission. Thank you for your support.

wildthing@dfw.wa.gov

Dear Wildlife Commission,

My name is: 
My email address is:   

    I agree with the following letter that Mr. Aaron Blanchard has typed up.  This needs to happen as soon as possible not later, as later will be too late for the Colockum elk herd.  I am sending this to you to let you know that I support a Permit only system for the Colockum (GMU's 328 and 329) instead of the proposed "true spike" rule.

 
Dear Wildlife Commission,

 My name is Aaron Blanchard and I represent a group known as Washington Sportsmen.  Recently I attended the meeting that was held in Ellensburg, WA.  First of all I would like to thank you for the time I was allowed to speak and I again thank you for taking the time to read this.  The following are the facts of the situation.  It is also exactly what I said at the meeting in Ellensburg. All of the following facts and statistics are from your website.  They have been taken from harvest reports, game trend reports and also the studies done for the elk herd plans.  I was also asked a question that I should have answered more thoroughly.  At the end is the response to that question.

  In the past 5 years the branch bull population in the Colockum has been absolutely decimated.  Currently the branch bull to cow ratio is 5:100.  In 2002 there were 391 branch bulls in the Colockum and as of 2007 there are only 116 branch bulls left.  This is a decline of 70%.  LET ME REITERATE THAT.  That is a decline of 70%.  That is a decline of 14% a year.  If this trend continues by 2011 there wont be any branch bulls left in the Colockum. 

 You need to act now, now 3 years from now.  You need to go to permit only now.  The elk need a stimulus package worse than our country does.  There are various reasons why the branch bull population has been decimated.  They are poaching, tribal-hunting, and far too much road access.  Some of these are out of your hands and others will take alot of time and resources to change.  Time that the Colockum elk do not have.  You need to control what you can which is spike recruitment.  You have the power to make things happen now which is what you need to do.

 The main problem with the Colockum elk herd is spike recruitment.  In the Colockum the average harvest is 135 per GMU.  In the Yakima herd the average spike harvest per GMU is only 57.  The Colockum has a spike harvest average per GMU of almost 3 times that of the Yakima GMUs.  85% of all yearling bulls in the Colockum are killed every year.  Only 15% of yearling bulls in the Colockum survive their first two years.  In 2005 only 46 spikes made it through the hunting season in the entire Colockum.   

The best course of action is to go to Permit Only now, not later.  Do what is right even if it is unpopular.  Sometimes the right choice isn't the popular choice.  Often the popular opinion isn't always an ethical one.  In any case during the surveys over the past year the public favored permit only over the "True Spike" proposition.  So why did you not go to permit only like the public wanted?  For those that oppose this what many people don't realize is that every year in the Colockum 300 or more spikes are harvested by hunters.  If it were permit only this would mean 300 more spikes would survive to become branch antlered bulls every year.  With special permit success rates being about 50% this would mean you could give out 600 branch bull permits in the Colockum every year instead of the 6 that were given out last year.

For the sake of the elk in the Colockum please do the right thing.  True Spike might have been a good idea ten years ago but right now the True Spike concept would be too little and too late.

 
I was asked this question at the end of my speech.  "Would I support the closure of all elk hunting in the Colockum for one year."

 My answer was a definate yes.  But under four conditions.

1.) It's closed to everyone for that year.  Licensed-Hunters, Master-Hunters, and Tribal-Hunters.  The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes  While the Boldt Decision of February 12, 1974 did grant the tribes 50% of all the fish harvest it did reserve the state's right to

The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes

 2.)  After a year when you do open it up it goes to permit only for at least three years in order to moniter how well the herd is doing.  If it goes back to the status quo we will be in the same boat we are in right now.

3.) When it is permit only you issue far more permits than are currently issued.  Without the massive amounts of spikes being harvested every year, you would have these spikes living to become branch bulls so you could afford to give out far more branch bull permits.   I have submitted an example of just how many permits you could give out.  I came up with the numbers by this method. I took  (Avg. # of spikes harvested in the Colockum 266.) And disributed those amongst the three user groups utilizing your distribution ratios. (Modern would get 170 of the 266.)   I then multiplied that number by the average special permit success rate. (170 x 70%= 221) I then added the amount that is already given out to get my total of permits you could and should give out.  (221 + 9 = 230) So for example if it goes to permit only you could give out 230 branch bull permits instead of 9 and still grow the herd.  Below are the numbers. Obviously this is just an example of how many numbers could be possible.  This is obviously not the exact number that would be used and I'm sure you guys would set your own numbers.

CSP                  Current amount of bull permits given out.
SPIKE HARVEST   Total Amount of Spikes killed in that unit that could have become branch bulls
RATIO %            Percent of Animals that go to that user group/Number of animals entitled to that user group.
ADD                  Additional amount of special permits that would now be available.
TOTAL              The new amount of special permits that would now be given out.


                               CSP      SPIKE HARVEST    RATIO%          ADD.      TOTAL       
MODERN                      9             266                64%170        221        230 
MUZZLE                      1              266                15%/40        59           60
BOW                          4              266                 21%/56        96          100
TOTAL                       14                                                     376         390
 
4.)  After three years do a study to see if the Colockum elk herd can again be hunted using a general season now that road closures have had a chance to be implemented.  The intent of the permit only is not to make the permit only a permanent change but only a temporary one in order to build the herd back up.  And to give us time to create physical barriers to limit some of the road access that is available in GMU's 328 and 329.

With 390 branch permits given out and a success rate of 65% this would only lead to the harvest of 256 bull elk a year.  Far short of the 300 plus spikes killed a year with the current seasons.  Again thank you for your time.  And I hope that you will listen to us and take our ideas into consideration.  We are not doing this to promote some sort of trophy hunt.  We are doing this so for the Colockum elk herd.  We all want to see the Colockum elk herd thrive so that our children and our childrens children can enjoy the same type of hunting that we currently enjoy. 

Respectfully  Aaron Blanchard and the Washington Sportsmen

[colockumelk]

I know many think I'm trying to take their rights but obviously spike only is not working in that area.  We need to limit the amount of road access but that will take alot of time.  Time I don't think the Colockum elk have.  This is why I would like to see it permit only for three years.  Then back to spike only once we have the type of limited road access like you see in the Yakima GMU's.  Spike only works there because they don't have nearly as much road access as the Colockum does. 

Also for those that don't like everything I said or wrote about please feel free to write your own version of what you would like to see happen involving a permit only system for three years.  I know many feel it's completely the Indians fault.  They are part of the problem in the Colockum but it's only a piece of the pie.  I guarantee you they kill far more in the Yakima herds and they are fine.  We need to look at ourselves first before we point the fingers and correct ourselves before we try and correct others.  That's how I was raised and that's what I believe.      YAK-NDN had an excellant point.  How can we go over to them screaming about them killing off all of our bulls when they can come back with the amount of bulls both branch and spikes (future bulls) that we kill a year.

[elksnout]

Alot of emotions on this subject. Many of which I agree. I'am in favor of permit only for elk for the entire dang state. But let me back up alittle first. We all know what a joke it is with our drawing system. Ten points, twelve points and still not drawing that tag. Our system needs to change to where a preference point is just that. This way a guy can almost bank on when he or she will draw out. Yes...like Oregon. They have units you can almost draw each year on up to the greatest trophy units like the Weneha with twelve. And the nice thing about their system is if you or your group doesn't draw you can make alternate plans like bow hunting or going on a general hunt. So I guess what I'am saying is, be careful what you ask for in regards to permit only in Washington based on our point system. There would be many of you regulars who now hunt these areas each fall who wouldn't have tags inside of the idea of a three year only permit hunt. And some of you are correct about cleaning up our own backyard before we scream too loud over the Native Americans and such. But we all can do something about poaching when and where we can. How many of you know someone at work or a relative who shoots that " extra " animal on their spouses or childs tag ? We all know this happens, right ? I can think of two partners I quit hunting with over this issue. Come back to camp and want someone else to use up their tag over this person greed. N :cryriver:ow I'am getting pissed all over again just thinking about it. Goodnight all. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[Buckrub]

Why go back to spike only? isn't this what destroyed the herd?

Why should one have to wait TEN FRIGGIN years or more to draw a permit! While others draw with one point

If you have 900 bulls put into the herd in three years by not hunting spikes and you want a total harvest of 35% just reduce the amount of days of a general season antler restricted hunt for everybody.

FAQ IT...make it ten point or better...there is your quality hunt but do it for everybody! ok...maybe 10 point or better is tooooo much.

[colockumelk]

Why go back to spike only? isn't this what destroyed the herd?
Actually spike only works in the Yakima herd.  The difference between them and the Colockum is the amount of road access and how wide and open the Colockum is.  Have you ever hunted in the Colockum?

Why should one have to wait TEN FRIGGIN years or more to draw a permit! While others draw with one point
It's called a lottery system.  It has nothing to do with revenue and no one is out to get you.  It's called luck of the draw.  Most western states have some type of point system.  We are no different.

If you have 900 bulls put into the herd in three years by not hunting spikes and you want a total harvest of 35% just reduce the amount of days of a general season antler restricted hunt for everybody.
Yeah this would work but you'd have to restrict the general season to only a day or two.  That would be some quality hunting.  NOT


FAQ IT...make it ten point or better...there is your quality hunt but do it for everybody! ok...maybe 10 point or better is tooooo much.

So what you're saying is who cares about the elk, you want to hunt branch bull all year long.  Prove how this would work.  Prove using facts and statistics from any research that this could work

I understand you believe that a 5 pt minimum system would work with a season reduction.  It might work but how far are you willing to retrict the season?  If you've ever hunted the Colockum you'd know that by the end of opening day over half of that seasons harvest is over.  By the end of the weekend over 2/3's of the elk that will be killed that year are already dead.  So should we limit people to one weekend a year to hunt?  And you said 35% does that mean we should close the season after 12 0'clock on opening day?  You're being way more restrictive than a permit only would be.

You say that point restrictions work on the West Side.  So are you comparing the thick timber of the west side to the open timber and sage brush of the Colockum?  It's kind of apples to oranges isn't it.  3 pt minimum works over there because the terrain is so thick.  An elk can be gone in two steps.  Plus there is a whole hell of alot more places for the elk to escape to out west than the Colockum have.  The Colockum have virtually nowhere to escape to.  Also unlike the West side, if an elk is seen and starts to run off a guy has enough time to empty his gun at the elk.  Then the elk still isn't safe because there's probably ten more guys that saw the same elk. 

The problem is too much road access, not enough cover and too many hunters which all equal not enough spikes live through the year to become branch bulls.  Do you realize that on average 4,280 guys cram into two GMU's to hunt about 2,500 elk?  That is almost 2 hunters for every elk.  But in reality that equals about 11 hunters for every legal spike running around.  That's not hunting that is a slaughter. 

I've come up with alot of facts to prove that my way would work.  You however have not been able to do the same.  You seem to only care about one thing, and that's being able to hunt branch bulls every year no matter the consequences to the elk.  Do you not realize that if it was 5 pt minimum that within three years your branch bull population in the Colockum would cease to exist?  It was any elk on the east side before 1994 and it didn't work then and it definately wont work now.  I know you think it worked but it didn't.  If you ever went to the feed stations during the winter you would know that.  You'd be lucky to see a 6 pt that would score 280.  Now a 280 bull is a dime a dozen. 

I'm trying to bring up solutions to a problem that we can actually implement.  You are bringing up dreams and fantasies.  If the "true spike" thing doesn't work THEY WILL GO to permit only.  At least now if we try to change things ourselves instead of it being completely on their terms. 

[Buckrub]

Issue Statement: WDFW
One hundred thousand Washington elk hunters harvest approximately 7,000 elk annually from
an estimated population of approximately 56,000. Washington has more elk hunters per elk than
any other western state and has no limit on the number of elk licenses sold. Because anyone can
purchase a license and hunt elk, success rates for general season hunters are low. Without carefully managed season timing, antler point restrictions, and relatively short seasons, the male
sub-population would be over-harvested. Opportunities to hunt and spend time afield must be
balanced against achieving or maintaining elk population objectives. As herd population levels
increase, harvest levels will increase as well.

As mandated by the Washington State Legislature (RCW 77.04.012), “… the department shall
preserve, protect, perpetuate, and manage the wildlife…”; “the department shall conserve the
wildlife… in a manner that does not impair the resource…”; and “The commission shall attempt
to maximize the public recreational… hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile,
disabled, and senior citizens.” It is this mandate that sets the overall policy and direction for
managing hunted wildlife. Hunters and hunting will continue to play a significant role in the
conservation and management of Washington’s wildlife.

This is from the wdfw...now on to your questions.

Have I ever hunted the Clockum?
next year will be my 39th year hunting Washington...what do you think? Yes.

Yes it is a lottery system and YOU may never hunt for bull elk on the eastside in your entire life, and we still don't meet bull to cow ratio.

Ok...rifle hunters only get a weekend hunt...better than never! select road closures would enhance escapement...at least you would get to hunt. With  no general season and a e/w tag, you don't draw you don't hunt that year and maybe you don't hunt there ever again, even with 15 points. 15 points only allows 45 entries into the draw system.
How could a weekend with a 1 in 3 chance of harvesting a mature bull be more restrictive than NEVER hunting.

I've hunted elk long enough to know mature bulls are very weary and even without cover they can put a man to shame in seconds....especially in the clockum.

Wouldn't road closures be considered habitat enhancement?

You yourself have said it would work in your comment but it would be a short season...why do I have to prove anything?

5 or 6 point antler restriction to a general season would be short for a lead thrower but I'd bet WE could figure out how to lengthen the season with select habitat enhancement (road closures).

[Snapshot]

Would there by any support for closing the Colockum to all elk hunting for a year (or two) to see if the herd would then show signs of recovering?

[Thenewguy]

WOW, it sounds like alot of people know what they are saying here

[Snapshot]

Begging your pardon, Buckrub, but I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Washington 'squares' the points. So if a guy has accumulated 15 points, his name will be "in the hat" 225 times.

[colockumelk]

Snapshot you are correct the point system is squared.

[colockumelk]

Have I ever hunted the Clockum?
next year will be my 39th year hunting Washington...what do you think? Yes.

Yes it is a lottery system and YOU may never hunt for bull elk on the eastside in your entire life, and we still don't meet bull to cow ratio.


I'll most likely get drawn this year and I only have four points.  Archery guys get drawn on average every four years in the Yakima GMU"s where the ML's and the rifle guys average every 6 years.  Unless you put in for the Colockum only or the Blue MT units only you should as well.

Most of the Yakima herds meet their bull to cow ratio objectives.  The Colockum doesn't because too many spikes are killed every year.  Spike only works for the Yakima herd because they have alot less road access then we do.  I know we both agree on limiting road access so no need toget into that.

Ok...rifle hunters only get a weekend hunt...better than never! select road closures would enhance escapement...at least you would get to hunt. With  no general season and a e/w tag, you don't draw you don't hunt that year and maybe you don't hunt there ever again, even with 15 points. 15 points only allows 45 entries into the draw system.
How could a weekend with a 1 in 3 chance of harvesting a mature bull be more restrictive than NEVER hunting.

You must not be familiar with how the point system work.  They square the points you have.  Which means if you have 15 points then you would have 15x15=225 points.  Again with this much points you could easily draw any Yakima unit even with a rifle tag. 

Where do you think hunters couldn't hunt at all.  I would rather get drawn every three years in the Colockum and get to have an awsome hunt, and; still get to hunt every year just in another GMU (There are 10 other GMU's to hunt) then only get to hunt for two days.  In order to meet your 5 pt minimum objective the season would be so short it wouldn't even be worth it.  Many take an entire week to go hunting and your plan would limit them to two days at the most. 

I've hunted elk long enough to know mature bulls are very weary and even without cover they can put a man to shame in seconds....especially in the clockum.

Yes but with a rifle it's mostly about chance.  Maybe in thicker areas a weary bull can survive but not in the open like that.  They may evade one guy but are they going to be able to evade 9 other guys in one draw that's super open, when the bull is pushed?  It's not a matter of how weary and cagey the bull is.  When guys can shoot and see 400 yds the bull doesn't stand a chance.  A chance that I'm trying to give these elk.

Wouldn't road closures be considered habitat enhancement?

Obviously there needs to be some major road restrictions in these GMU's.  This will be my major goal this year is physically closing down as many roads as they'll let me close. 

You yourself have said it would work in your comment but it would be a short season...why do I have to prove anything?

Because I've already proven myself to people with alot of facts and stats.  I've shown that my method would indeed work.  I've shown how mathematically you would get drawn every 3 years and many would get drawn every 2 years.  Now YOU NEED to show us stats etc how your plan would work.  How many days could guys hunt.  What would the restrictions be, when would the season be.  Who knows it might be a good idea and I'l incorporate it into my plans when I go before the commission and when I go to the big game round table discussions.  Make a believer out of me.  The more ideas the better. 

5 or 6 point antler restriction to a general season would be short for a lead thrower but I'd bet WE could figure out how to lengthen the season with select habitat enhancement (road closures).