Should 209 primers be legal?

[SeaRun1]

Yes...

[hunter399]

Voted no!

[Stein]

I tend toward no unless the notion of splitting the season into primitive and muzzleloader is an option.  The primitive weapon idea in my mind is something with a) very limited range, b) open sights and c) something that doesn't always go bang when you pull the trigger.

I really don't know how much more of an advantage against the weather a 209 does, so I do admit this isn't a very well informed opinion.  But, if you get 95+% ignition on the west side during your average week of hunting, I think you have something that is much different than the traditional muzzleloader in your hands.

I could get jacked about a true flintlock season though, wood stock, plain metal, 10 feet long.

[HardCorpsHuntr]

NO, and I love ML hunting.

[j_h_nimrod]

Before I started reading the posts I was against the use of 209s. My thinking was that this hunting method should be more difficult and not be given another edge. After further reflection I have changed my opinion to yes, which I will put on my survey. This is more of a means than an ends argument, the addition of 209 primers does not make the weapon more effective, increase the range, or more powerful, just more reliable.

This would be akin to mandating the type of release or rests for archery.  Finger or string loop releases only, no mechanical releases. No drop away rests or Whisker Biscuits, stationary rests only. These are not things that increase the overall power or range of the system, just the reliability and accuracy assuring the chance of a more clean kill when the opportunity arises.

Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons. 

No, using a crossbow during archery would be like using one of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders that drive .375 caliber bullets close to 3000 fps and are accurate over 300 yards. The 209 does not appreciably increase the effective range of a muzzleloader.

[JakeLand]

Before I started reading the posts I was against the use of 209s. My thinking was that this hunting method should be more difficult and not be given another edge. After further reflection I have changed my opinion to yes, which I will put on my survey. This is more of a means than an ends argument, the addition of 209 primers does not make the weapon more effective, increase the range, or more powerful, just more reliable.

This would be akin to mandating the type of release or rests for archery.  Finger or string loop releases only, no mechanical releases. No drop away rests or Whisker Biscuits, stationary rests only. These are not things that increase the overall power or range of the system, just the reliability and accuracy assuring the chance of a more clean kill when the opportunity arises.
Well said 

Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons. 

No, using a crossbow during archery would be like using one of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders that drive .375 caliber bullets close to 3000 fps and are accurate over 300 yards. The 209 does not appreciably increase the effective range of a muzzleloader.

[snowshoes22]

yes for 209 primers. No advantage difference in my opinion. No to scopes 100%

[Mallardmasher]

Definitely NO. You get better seasons than modern rifle because the odds are less that you will kill something while being provided a less crowded field at a better time. If you continue the process of improving the weapon then you deserve less time in the field and at a time when it is harder to hunt. For example the muzzie season for elk is right on the edge of the elk rut. Years ago they took this favorable time for hunting away from the bow hunters who obviously were using a weapon that provides much less of an opportunity for a kill than a muzzleloader. Suck it up and enjoy what you have already been given.

Years ago they did not take the time away from bow hunters, the new season they currently have, put them at the beginning, and some years right in the meat of the rut. The season they now have, was fostered by KBH with the support of some past and present WDFW employees, and many other archery clubs.

[j_h_nimrod]

I tend toward no unless the notion of splitting the season into primitive and muzzleloader is an option.  The primitive weapon idea in my mind is something with a) very limited range, b) open sights and c) something that doesn't always go bang when you pull the trigger.

I could get jacked about a true flintlock season though, wood stock, plain metal, 10 feet long.

I like the idea, but then you are splitting already short seasons into more short seasons. If there were a true primitive muzzleloader season then archery guys would want a season for recurve an long bows shooting wooden arrows with finger release.  Then you would get the modern guys wanting a season for cartridges or guns designed before 1874. Then you would get the group wanting to use an atlatl or spear.  Then a group only wanting air powered guns...

I like the idea of a true primitive season but would always want to use the most effective weapon for the season.  I personally want my freezer to be full of game meat, not going out to the store buying beef solely because I chose to make an already difficult season more so.

[Stein]

Valid points.  I guess that puts it back to whether it should be a traditional weapon season or a modern muzzleloader season.  I don't see any valid reason to allow some modern elements but not others.  Like archery, if you are going to have a modern smokepole, limit a few things like bore diameter, muzzleloading and powder and then have at it with the rest.

[wapiti hunter2]

If you voted no and use a modern muzzle loader like a Knight, you are a hypocrite. You are already using modern technology. The 209 primer doesn't change a thing. If you want it to be "primitive", go back to flint lock and an open pan only.

[Seahawk12]

That division managers first name though! 

[Jimmy33]

Yes


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[REHJWA]

I voted yes 209. It is hard to understand how one group of hunters think another group gets an advantage over the other... You can choose which season and method works best for you. We are all hunters and should support clean ethical harvests.

[Old Dog]

I took the third option.  I shoot a caplock, but if anyone wants to shoot an inline with 209 ignition it's alright with me.