NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?

[Cervid]

I think most of us know what kind of shape the methow herd is in and it seems the Yakima herd is in even worse shape. So where are the healthy herds?

[Gobble Gobble]

I've asked myself the same thing about the area I hunt near Goldendale. It's gone from seeing 30 deer in a day to a handful of tracks at most in the snow. I'm looking for new a new area.

I hope it's only an isolated incident. http://www.chinookobserver.com/co/local-news/20170912/deadly-deer-disease-arrives-in-sw-washington

[Skyvalhunter]

The healthy herds are in AZ & UT at least they manage their herds to be that way.

[rtspring]

As a whole the numbers are down. But my area has improved the last 5 years.  I think some of these burns should help the numbers in years to come, provided we have aome mild winters.

[NOCK NOCK]

Definitely not in the Entiat Valley. That herd is 1/2 a step behind the Methow. Been at it ALOT thru archery and muzzy....... worst I’ve seen it in 38 years of hunting. 

[grade-creek-rd]

the Yakima and Kittitas Co herds have been on the decline for a long time, with diseases (lice) taking their toll as well as a lot of their wintering grounds are either orchards (fenced off), a firing range (stress induced on wintering deer) or the wind farms...again, stress as there are always people up there working and monitoring the farms. Mule deer are migratory by nature, living high up on the slopes during summer and down low in the winter...it's basic carrying capacity 101.

Same goes for the Entiat and Methow...with homes being built in the wintering grounds it will only get worse, but the "good news" is the fires in those valleys created new wintering grounds as the buckbrush/bitterbrush (cianophis...sp?) has come back strong and is a primary food source. Give those two valley's 3 to 5 years and it will be "the good ole days" once again...but the Yakima and Kittitas herds don't have this option...

Grade

[boneaddict]

Entiat is holding in there along with Mission, but as noted, it’s one step behind the Methow.   A banner harvest, a big winter, wolves taking over as they are already getting a foothold.  .   It’s all it’s going to take.   

[Cervid]

Depressing. My family has hunted the Methow for something like 4 generations (family property in the Twin Lakes area). I grew up hearing stories and seeing pictures of the many deer they've taken out of there, but for all my time I've spent hunting it, I've shot one deer there. Seems like it's been on the decline for quite a while. We finally got fed up with the low numbers of deer and high numbers of hunters that we stopped hunting the methow. Problem is I don't have anywhere else to go that's a reasonable distance from Western WA. I went back and tried hunting there last year during muzzleloader, but didn't see anything legal on public land. I'm going to give it another go this weekend and hope for the best. I have a feeling I'm just going to be disappointed yet again though...

[wolfbait]

the Yakima and Kittitas Co herds have been on the decline for a long time, with diseases (lice) taking their toll as well as a lot of their wintering grounds are either orchards (fenced off), a firing range (stress induced on wintering deer) or the wind farms...again, stress as there are always people up there working and monitoring the farms. Mule deer are migratory by nature, living high up on the slopes during summer and down low in the winter...it's basic carrying capacity 101.

Same goes for the Entiat and Methow...with homes being built in the wintering grounds it will only get worse, but the "good news" is the fires in those valleys created new wintering grounds as the buckbrush/bitterbrush (cianophis...sp?) has come back strong and is a primary food source. Give those two valley's 3 to 5 years and it will be "the good ole days" once again...but the Yakima and Kittitas herds don't have this option...

Grade

As for the Methow:

It isn't the homes being built that is causing the decline of deer, it's the over population of predators such as cougars and wolves. In fact you will see more deer hanging around peoples homes etc. for protection then out in the brush these days and especially when winter rolls around.



You can't count on WDF&Wolves to help the deer out by feeding during hard winters, like in the old days, until they are shamed into it by the public, and by then the deer are so starved that many of them bloat not far from the feeding station a few feet off the county road.

[Skyvalhunter]

While the wolves, cougars & coyotes may well have had an impact on the herd. Most of it can be contributed to WDFW's generosity of special permits to rifle, muzzle loaders & archery and senior citizens. Then throw in the fact they didn't want to feed the deer after the wildfires so they decided to hand out doe permits like their candy. You have people out there killing pregnant does and expect it to come back. You cannot kill off the breeding future of the herd and not expect it to suffer.

[zwickeyman]

IMHO,

SKY hit it on the head. All contributing factors. Fires, Predators and a huge reason is year after year of special permits and slaughtering the Does. Our Game Dept is terrible and has been for 40 years, they have mismanaged the Muledeer worse than any other species in Wa.

[grade-creek-rd]

The one thing I will point out regarding the doe permits is the that season's they are given out for (early seasons) most of the does that are taken are non-migratory and "resident" deer and are not contributing to the migratory herds anyway as their fawns live in the lowlands (and eventually get hit by a car...another reason why the resident deer population needs to be kept in check...that highway has the highest car vs deer collisions in the state). Driving up the Methow valley the resident or non-migratory deer numbers, especially females, are just fine...that is if you want room during the harsh winter months for the backcountry deer to have a place to eat then you need to thin out the resident deer numbers. I don't have a problem with the doe permits when houses are going up in the wintering grounds...and for the comments about how the deer take refuge near homes to get away from predators...I totally agree, but that is still a minority of the deer that do this, and the displacement of feed/cover and human interaction is part of the decline...it is all relative to wildlife management 101 and mule deer do not adapt easily to human interactions...yes, when the winter grounds are burned up we should institute feeding programs, but I also believe that if we build homes or fence off orchards/alfalfa fields then we must also institute feeding programs. Instead of our goal being to meet the lowest carrying capacity (winter range) we should be striving for reaching the highest carrying capacity (summer range).

Grade

[bigmacc]

My  ....I agree with what many have said, First, at this time if you want to hunt "healthy muley herds" you are going to need to go out of state, I have friends that hunt other states that are within a 6-14 hour drive and do very well. Second, predators are OUT OF CONTROL in this state, I have mentioned it in other threads(and I will only speak of the Methow) that when you go on scouting trips and the numbers of predators you see rival the amount of game you see it is not good. Third, Mother Nature has not been kind to our herds over the last 10 years, whether it be fires or winters. Fourth, throw in what I consider mis-management on top of the prior 3 points, IMHO you have a recipe for a nice "camping trip" in gods country, as far as hunting mule deer in the Methow goes, there will be some deer taken and a few will be big fellas(as there will be in the Entiat and other muley grounds) but I can assure you that the numbers in the Methow are the worst I have seen in 50 years!

[crankin04]

Entiat is holding in there along with Mission, but as noted, it’s one step behind the Methow.   A banner harvest, a big winter, wolves taking over as they are already getting a foothold.  .   It’s all it’s going to take.

I live basically between the Mission and Swakane unit, and would also add the Swakane in specific as "holding in there" based on all the deer I've seen this summer to now on Private lands. Been up Derby, Nahahum, Hay Canyon, etc the last 3 months and have... Counted 20 bucks and about 60+ does and fawns (8 legal shooters) all on PRIVATE lands up those canyons... They know they're safe there, but it is NOT what it used to be back when I was a teenager over 20 years ago.

[boneaddict]

While the wolves, cougars & coyotes may well have had an impact on the herd. Most of it can be contributed to WDFW's generosity of special permits to rifle, muzzle loaders & archery and senior citizens. Then throw in the fact they didn't want to feed the deer after the wildfires so they decided to hand out doe permits like their candy. You have people out there killing pregnant does and expect it to come back. You cannot kill off the breeding future of the herd and not expect it to suffer.

That will go down as one of the stupidest blunders ever with deer management,  and there were members on here partaking in it with wide eyed wonder.