Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings

[DOUBLELUNG]

Good stuff doublelung.  You let me know when you are ready for wyoming.  I'll run down your cripples like a cheetah

Perfect!

[KFhunter]

I gotta hand it to you DOUBLELUNG,  you posted this and you knew you'd take a few licks for it, you've handled the criticisms admirably.

[CAMPMEAT]

We shot a spike in the good old days on Blewitt and while skinning it, we found a huge, hard knot about the size of a soft ball that had an old broadhead in it.

[highside74]

I guess from what I read, there has been some edits. But for the most part I like how this thead has gone. A few months ago this would have been a place of hate and discontent.

[BULLBLASTER]

Good stuff doublelung.  You let me know when you are ready for wyoming.  I'll run down your cripples like a cheetah

You better get a new knee before running like a cheetah too much!

[DOUBLELUNG]

It sounds to me like he or his partners were struggling with whether or not to shoot it with a gun.

It is interesting to me when ethics start to override what the rules are.

I wasn't struggling but my buddy was.  I think for him it had more to do with harvesting the elk rather than any perceived suffering on the elk's part, he didn't want the elk to get away and was pretty confident I couldn't seal the deal.

I was not interested in having him shoot it because 1) illegality and 2) I was confident it was not a mortal wound.  I knew the odds were low of harvesting the bull, because it was not an incapacitating shot, and I was pretty confident he would recover if I could not harvest him.  Had it been a slow death mortal wound, e.g. gut shot, I would not have wanted him to shoot the bull because with a good vantage to keep watch and observe, the odds would have been much better that time and patience would have eventually had him lay or fall down, and either die or be vulnerable to a stalk and finisher.

That said, there are times where personal ethics may dictate breaking the law.  All I have to contribute on that end is that an ethical motivation is not a hall pass.  Deciding to break the law, in my book, is also taking ownership of the consequences if caught.  When my personal ethics have dictated breaking the law, I accept that I'll face the consequences if I do so.  In the game violations arena though, over the years I've seen a lot of guys get really butt hurt and feel abused when they got caught "doing the right thing".  Interestingly, I've also seen a lot of situations where it sure looked like straight up poaching, but the perpetrators try to argue that in fact they were doing the right thing.   

[h20hunter]

 

Well said.

[slowhand]

So over the many years of Deer/Elk hunting My family and I have learned several things that have helped us find animals that produced no blood trail.
#1 where I shot from
#2 where was the animal standing
#3 what direction did the animal head
#4 treat the entire area ahead of the shooter like a crime scene
#5 one person in the lead looking for sign the others stay behind to look for any additional tracks or sign. They like to back track and do a Circle.
flag tape everything that is a for sure sign in one color (Red) and possible in another color (Yellow).
#6 only move forward on the "tracking trail" when We are 100% confident of a piece of sign
My family finds the tracking part of bow hunting to be one on the most enjoyable parts.
I am sure You guys did Your very best. The emotional roller coaster of tracking can not be understated.
Thank You for telling the story, I wish You the best. Any other tracking tips? I am always up to learn more.

[Rainier10]

It sounds to me like he or his partners were struggling with whether or not to shoot it with a gun.

It is interesting to me when ethics start to override what the rules are.

I wasn't struggling but my buddy was.  I think for him it had more to do with harvesting the elk rather than any perceived suffering on the elk's part, he didn't want the elk to get away and was pretty confident I couldn't seal the deal.

I was not interested in having him shoot it because 1) illegality and 2) I was confident it was not a mortal wound.  I knew the odds were low of harvesting the bull, because it was not an incapacitating shot, and I was pretty confident he would recover if I could not harvest him.  Had it been a slow death mortal wound, e.g. gut shot, I would not have wanted him to shoot the bull because with a good vantage to keep watch and observe, the odds would have been much better that time and patience would have eventually had him lay or fall down, and either die or be vulnerable to a stalk and finisher.

That said, there are times where personal ethics may dictate breaking the law.  All I have to contribute on that end is that an ethical motivation is not a hall pass.  Deciding to break the law, in my book, is also taking ownership of the consequences if caught.  When my personal ethics have dictated breaking the law, I accept that I'll face the consequences if I do so.  In the game violations arena though, over the years I've seen a lot of guys get really butt hurt and feel abused when they got caught "doing the right thing".  Interestingly, I've also seen a lot of situations where it sure looked like straight up poaching, but the perpetrators try to argue that in fact they were doing the right thing.   

Great post.

I would think that having one of your partners on the edge of indecisiveness in what to do made it all that much tougher.  Maybe in this situation it was easy to stand behind your beliefs but in the moment of emotions running so high and probably all over the place I just think it would be difficult.

I can't second guess any of your decisions as I was not there.

I applaud your effort and am really glad that you posted this thread for all to have a discussion and hopefully learn from your experience.

[DOUBLELUNG]

So over the many years of Deer/Elk hunting My family and I have learned several things that have helped us find animals that produced no blood trail.
#1 where I shot from
#2 where was the animal standing
#3 what direction did the animal head
#4 treat the entire area ahead of the shooter like a crime scene
#5 one person in the lead looking for sign the others stay behind to look for any additional tracks or sign. They like to back track and do a Circle.
flag tape everything that is a for sure sign in one color (Red) and possible in another color (Yellow).
#6 only move forward on the "tracking trail" when We are 100% confident of a piece of sign
My family finds the tracking part of bow hunting to be one on the most enjoyable parts.
I am sure You guys did Your very best. The emotional roller coaster of tracking can not be understated.
Thank You for telling the story, I wish You the best. Any other tracking tips? I am always up to learn more.

I do all of that except perhaps #4 and only use one roll of flagging.  The lead tracker focuses on sign, the one behind who will take the follow up shot scans forward (sometimes with binoculars) and minimizes focus on the track.  Under dry open conditions, getting your face parallel with the ground and sighting along the track will often show a "shine" where most recently disturbed.  A busted stick the length of the animal's stride can be very helpful in locating the next piece of sign. 

I've also had some good luck with GPS grid searches after losing the trail, zooming in to the smallest field of view and laying the tracks right next to the previous track line.  My screen width is 200' at that level, and it is pretty easy to lay the track lines on top of each other at 20-30' intervals, and also identifies the holes where you have to go around for a closer look.  The down side with tracking the bull was primarily that 70+ elk had moved through that area shortly before the shot, and once off the knob I shot from, very tall dense vegetation. 

[Rainier10]

One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.

[DOUBLELUNG]

There is a huge lesson in this.....get out there and enjoy every second you can. You never know when life circumstances will get in the way and we won’t be able to do it like we want.

Hats off to you for pushing the edges still and putting boots to ground. From what I’ve gathered over the years here you have had a storied career in the outdoors and what you’ve shared here on this thread must have been a hard pill to swallow, but atlas Good men share, learn and move on. Good job good sir. 

Thanks.  I was "fortunate" to expect to die young from a heart attack, so I front-loaded life with a lot of experiences I might have put off with a normal life expectancy All of the men in my dad's line died between 21 and 42, either form known heart attacks or unknown causes (that were probably heart attacks).  I was 8 and my dad was a fit, healthy 29 year old when he had his first heart attack in '74, and medical science had advanced enough to identify the genetic causes behind it.  He picked up a good gene, as he was the first to survive the first attack (he's 72 now, healthy and still working), and 44 when he survived a really severe one by great good fortune and had a 7-way bypass.  I got a big benefit when statins came around, and between that and knowing a whole lot more than my forefathers had the benefit of, I went to the ER at 37 at the first hint of chest pain and got my first two stents.  I'm up to 7 now.  My son was five and I opted for very aggressive treatment to maximize my likelihood of surviving to 50, when he would be 18.  Mission accomplished!

[slowhand]

One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.

Forgot that one
Yes We do that also

[jstone]

Bad shots happen. With any weapon. Mistakes are made and that’s how we learn to be better hunters. Thanks for the story Doublelung..!! Your a stand up guy!!

[Rainier10]

One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.

Forgot that one
Yes We do that also

We put the shooter at the last known blood, if the animal jumps up in front of us he should be close and ready.  Plus it is a positive distraction getting to move forward everytime new blood or a confirmed track is found.