Cougar hunting or hunted?

[jennabug]

I've been seriously considering trying for cougar (and/or bear) this year and I keep wondering about the likelihood of being hunted myself. I've tried browsing past topics about cougar hunting and have read the following:
1. Cougar hunting is not effective without dogs.
2. You've got to be in great shape to even consider chasing cats. (how great of shape?)
3. The likelihood of finding a cougar is extremely small.
4. Cats sneaking up on hunters

I'm still a newbie hunter, so I'm wondering how realistic any of these thoughts are before I devote a bunch of time to it. But also have been watching the game camera threads and seeing how the animal populations are changing from ungulates to predators.  And if hunting should continue, I should be working on predators too, right? Doing a guided trip is definitely not in the budget this year.

Thoughts?

[92xj]

1. false
2. the better shape you are the better, but not a requirement
3. true
4. worry about that about as much as worrying about lightning hitting you or a tree falling on you.  That worry level is only yours to determine. I worry zero about it.

For you, and in-state cougar hunting, wait till the snow flies, cut a track on the road in the blues and start following it and see what happens.  If not winter hunting them, glass, glass and glass some more. or road hunt and get stupid lucky and see one cross in front of you.
Or...find a dead animal and sit on it waiting for a cougar to come check it out.
Don't get your hopes up on finding or killing one though, but enjoy the outdoors while doing this.

[jennabug]

1. false
2. the better shape you are the better, but not a requirement
3. true
4. worry about that about as much as worrying about lightning hitting you or a tree falling on you.  That worry level is only yours to determine. I worry zero about it.

For you, and in-state cougar hunting, wait till the snow flies, cut a track on the road in the blues and start following it and see what happens.  If not winter hunting them, glass, glass and glass some more. or road hunt and get stupid lucky and see one cross in front of you.
Or...find a dead animal and sit on it waiting for a cougar to come check it out.
Don't get your hopes up on finding or killing one though, but enjoy the outdoors while doing this.

Awesome, That's what my gut has been telling me, but not having any predator hunters in my circle had me questioning everything. There's so much information out there (some conflicting) it is overwhelming! Thank you.

[92xj]

And that's coming from someone who has never killed one, but has seen them and gone out for the soul purpose to try and kill one. Everyone will have something different to say on the internet. Best thing for you to do is just hit the blues and start navigating.

For bears, find food source. Spring time grass and greens, late summer to fall berries, right before winter, grubs, animal kills and any sort of berry or fruit hanging on before the frost.

[BearCreekCookBook]

All good advice so far.
Find the elk herd and you can expect a cat to be close.
They like high vantage points and rocky ridges.
Learn the difference between cat and dog tracks & scat.
They tend to sleep most of the day away in trees so 1st and last hour of the day are prime time.
They tend to follow a circuit that can take between 7-21 days depending on kills etc.
Cats are crazy tuned in and curious so expect 100 cats to see you before you see 1 of them.
Persistence pays, just don't hold your breath.
Good luck and post pictures if you get one of those monsters.

[boneaddict]

ITs very difficult to kill a cat without the use of dogs, unless you are a great predator caller.  Generally speaking, you become the hunted when calling them in. 

To run a cat without hounds, track them down, you have to be in great shape.

Just running into a cat is becoming more and more frequent.  It didnt use to be like that.

as far as being hunted.  Well, again calling for elk or something like that can certainly increase your odds of bringing in the predators.  Ive brought in cats, wolves and a grizz by calling for elk and moose.

(I've killed multiple cats)

[92xj]

Ahhh.. I totally forgot about the calling them in aspect!
Dumb.

Include that with your glassing and see what happens.

[Jonathan_S]

I've spent months of my life trying to cut fresh tracks in the snow and call cats.  Nothing wrong with trying but don't expect a lot of action.

I've called one in that I'm aware of.  Snuck in through 100 yards of open timber to about 30 yards, couldn't get it in the scope and it evaporated.  Wish I'd brought open sights that day. Major pucker factor to see that cat on the prowl in my direction.

Most of the cats I've known to be killed without dogs, were just killed by folks hunting coyotes or deer/elk.

[Rainier10]

Pretty much everything I was going to say has been said already.

I learned a ton about cats this past year on a guided trip with Bearpaw outfitters.  We hunted in Idaho with hounds.  There is a ton of down time to ask questions and learn.  If you can afford a guided hunt with dogs I would highly suggest it.  After our hunt I am motivated to try boot hunting this year when the snow flies.  I think the odds are low for success but I think they are significantly higher with the knowledge I gained from hunting last year with Bearpaw.

[jackelope]

Talk to @flyguide  about walking a cougar down. Pretty sure he'll verify a good fitness level will be a requirement.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,40671.msg490430.html#msg490430

[Bob33]

http://www.mountainlion.org/us/wa/library/WA-R-Martorello-Beausoleil-2003-ABSTRACT-Characteristics-of-Cougar-Harvest-with-and-Without-the-Use-of-Dogs.pdf

[quadrafire]

All the boot hunting cats that I've known taken were actually taken from treestand deer hunters.
If you have deer/elk/turkey/shed hunted etc. Then you have already been "hunted" stalked/seen by the cats.

Kinda spooky to think about isn't it?...........

[hunter399]

Bears and cats are afraid of you ,more than you are of them.
With that said your biggest worry of being attacked is a mom kitty or moma bear with cubs .

[Katmai Guy]

When in the budget, buy an electronic caller and decoy. This limits movement immensely  over hand calling. Position the caller to draw the cats attention away from you.  Get ready for some fun, relax and goodluck.

[724wd]

All the boot hunting cats that I've known taken were actually taken from treestand deer hunters.
If you have deer/elk/turkey/shed hunted etc. Then you have already been "hunted" stalked/seen by the cats.

Kinda spooky to think about isn't it?...........

Don't forget us ground blind hunters! 

My cat was "blind" luck. archery deer hunting, near dark, it likely saw my movement as i stuck my head out the window of the blind as I prepared to head out and came in to investigate. I stuck it at 7 yards and it ran 40 before dying.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,218828.msg2911333.html#msg2911333

[boneaddict]

@Bob33     curious if you can find cougar tag sales for the same time periods. 

I think those statistics are very misleading.  Between population influx and the amount of hunters with tags in their pockets. 

[JimmyHoffa]

Seem to recall it was permit only and a much shorter season when dogs were allowed.

[Bob33]

@Bob33     curious if you can find cougar tag sales for the same time periods. 

I think those statistics are very misleading.  Between population influx and the amount of hunters with tags in their pockets.

The seasons were lengthened and the tag fee reduced which resulted in an increased number of hunters.

From the linked article:

[Special T]

I think the big thing about bagging a cougar is just heading out and killing more predators of all kinds. Coyotes Bobcats, bear and cougar.

I want to say a member on here focused on cougar vocalizations for e callers. Was it  Rainshadow? Anyway some one on here has discussed west side(Olympic Peninsula) cat calling a bunch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jackelope]

I think the big thing about bagging a cougar is just heading out and killing more predators of all kinds. Coyotes Bobcats, bear and cougar.

I want to say a member on here focused on cougar vocalizations for e callers. Was it  Rainshadow? Anyway some one on here has discussed west side(Olympic Peninsula) cat calling a bunch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

@rainshadow1

[bearpaw]

I've been seriously considering trying for cougar (and/or bear) this year and I keep wondering about the likelihood of being hunted myself. I've tried browsing past topics about cougar hunting and have read the following:
1. Cougar hunting is not effective without dogs.
2. You've got to be in great shape to even consider chasing cats. (how great of shape?)
3. The likelihood of finding a cougar is extremely small.
4. Cats sneaking up on hunters

I'm still a newbie hunter, so I'm wondering how realistic any of these thoughts are before I devote a bunch of time to it. But also have been watching the game camera threads and seeing how the animal populations are changing from ungulates to predators.  And if hunting should continue, I should be working on predators too, right? Doing a guided trip is definitely not in the budget this year.

Thoughts?

Jenna, here are my thoughts on your questions:

1. Cougar hunting is not effective without dogs.
Hound hunting with proven hounds is by far the most effective method. In my opinion based on the people I know who have done it, walking down a cat is the next most effective method, one of my guides has purposefully walked down three cougar in about that many seasons, but it requires excellent physical condition. For someone not in the best condition I would consider calling, baiting, glassing, or finding/hunting a kill. Calling should be done in areas that are known to have cougar. Baiting was outlawed for bear, not cats! Yes, cougar will sometimes come to bait if you bait in the right places and have a good source for bait. Another good option is sitting and glassing in known cougar areas. We see cougar just about every year while we are deer and beer hunting. Usually the hunters don't have a cougar tag! Finding and hunting a cougar kill is another good method. We find cougar kills every year when hunting in the winter, if a hunter sits within sight of a kill, there is a good chance the cat is coming back if you are still and you didn't disturb the area too much. Keep the wind in your favor where you sit and try to sit back a ways.

2. You've got to be in great shape to even consider chasing cats. (how great of shape?)
To walk a cougar down you need to be prepared to walk several miles in rough terrain to give it a fair try and then back to your vehicle.

3. The likelihood of finding a cougar is extremely small.
For most people yes, if you know where the cats cross or areas they frequent then your odds go way up but still not nearly as high of odds as hunting with hounds!

4. Cats sneaking up on hunters
If you are calling, the cat will be hunting the call, numerous times they have snuck to within 10 to 30 yards in hunting season when we are calling other species before we see them! If you try to walk one down he will likely see you before you see him and take off, but if you have a good eye and keep after him eventually you might see him.

My opinion is that on average hunters spend far more than the cost of a good hound hunt for every cat that is actually killed without hounds. However, if the specific desire is to DIY a cougar or if you simply cannot afford a hound hunt then the best thing to do is become as knowledgeable as possible about these other methods before you begin and you should do is practice your rifle handling, sight acquiring ability, and offhand marksmanship. What i mean is that most hunters put their rifle up and must search for the target. If you have to search there's a good chance the cat will be gone before you find him in your sights.  If your gun is scoped have the scope on low power when practicing and when actually hunting a cougar. Practice by picking out a rock or stump or anything and quickly raise your rifle, the target should be in your scope when it comes to your eye, if not you need more practice at doing that. Practice whenever you can until that is all natural, the target is always there when you put your rifle up. That will make you a much more effective hunter of all species! You can carry shooting sticks if you want, but with cougar many other game animals there often is not time to set up on shooting sticks, so it also improves your chances to become proficient at offhand shooting. That is another issue that requires practice, don't feel bad if you simply can't do it, there is a high percentage of hunters who cannot consistently hit paper offhand at 100 yards or even at 50 yards, but your odds are better if you can shoot offhand when only have a split second to shoot. So get out and shoot offhand  if you need to. Now find out where the cats live, there are several ways. Maybe trail cams have been getting photos in a particular area, maybe there have been recent sightings by someone you know, maybe some hunters can tell you where they have seen cougar multiple times, or find someone who used to run hounds and ask them if they would share some cougar crossing areas with you. Cougar are territorial, the hunt the same areas, time after time, areas where cats frequented 20 or 50 years ago are probably frequented by cats in today's world too,

I hope some of this helps. 

[throttlejocky20]

I have seen 6 and killed 1 never hunted with dogs, all but 2 of the cats i have seen were there just long enough to confirm what i was looking at then vanished forever. The one i killed was pure luck and sketchy. I walked into a draw while deer hunting and she was walking at me with her head in the grass at about 80 yards. What i didn't know is i was standing 10 feet from her recent kill she drug to this point and she had about 5 month old kittens near by.

[Cougartail]

I think the big thing about bagging a cougar is just heading out and killing more predators of all kinds. Coyotes Bobcats, bear and cougar.

This is the right attitude. The things you see and learn hunting all predators will make you a better hunter and you will have great memories.

Covering miles on foot also gets you first hand knowledge of the land. Take notes and pictures.

[jennabug]

Thanks for all your replies.  Plenty to think about, but mostly "get out there".

I learned a ton about cats this past year on a guided trip with Bearpaw outfitters.  We hunted in Idaho with hounds.  There is a ton of down time to ask questions and learn.  If you can afford a guided hunt with dogs I would highly suggest it.  After our hunt I am motivated to try boot hunting this year when the snow flies.  I think the odds are low for success but I think they are significantly higher with the knowledge I gained from hunting last year with Bearpaw.

Rainier10, I read through that yesterday on my lunch. Good stuff.

724wd, I'll read yours soon.

bearpaw, thank you for the very specific advice. There's a lot that I can work on with those suggestions, including shooting offhand and keeping the scope power turned down. Great considerations.
 

[Mudman]

Treestands Do work!  I couldn't get a shot at a big Tom.  I still not sure who was hunting who?  Archery.  Rifle would have been a 35yard kill.  Just happened to be on a frequent elk trail.  I would say a tall stand on a well used game trail in a well know cat area in a funnel type location would be the best.  And start the hunt few hours before sun up.

[Buckjunkie]

Years ago I picked up a couple hunters in the snow that were a long way from their Sled(s). They claimed that when they get fresh snow they head out on snow machines and look for fresh tracks. They were in prime deer and elk winter range. When they cut a track they walked it out. They claimed to have taken 5 cats that way. I thought it seemed like a good idea.

[jennabug]

Tree stands and snowmobiles are toys I dont have.

[jasnt]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,185537.0.html


Get out ther and hunt. If I can do it any of you can

[Brushcrawler]

Maybe rainshadow will chime in directly, but his website is pretty cool and has a lot of great stories to learn from.
http://www.rain-shadow.com/prod03.htm

[jennabug]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,185537.0.html


Get out ther and hunt. If I can do it any of you can

Yes! I read that one too! Congratulations to you.

I'll take a look at rainshadow's page thanks!

[yakimanoob]

@jennabug don't forget you can pick up the phone and talk to the district biologists.  They won't tell you where the cougars are, but I've always had great experiences gleaning information from them. 

[CAMPMEAT]

Rocky bluffs. Cats like sunning themselves on them.

[boneaddict]

@jennabug don't forget you can pick up the phone and talk to the district biologists.  They won't tell you where the cougars are, but I've always had great experiences gleaning information from them.

Ours only specialize in wolves.  (sorry, couldn't resist)

[rainshadow1]

I think the big thing about bagging a cougar is just heading out and killing more predators of all kinds. Coyotes Bobcats, bear and cougar.

I want to say a member on here focused on cougar vocalizations for e callers. Was it  Rainshadow? Anyway some one on here has discussed west side(Olympic Peninsula) cat calling a bunch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

@rainshadow1

I've called them all over the state and a few other places, but the best source for the art of calling is the call-in story page on my website, that's the entire West.

[jennabug]

@jennabug don't forget you can pick up the phone and talk to the district biologists.  They won't tell you where the cougars are, but I've always had great experiences gleaning information from them.

Ewwww... phone calls?!  

I've called them all over the state and a few other places, but the best source for the art of calling is the call-in story page on my website, that's the entire West.

I got to skim a few of the stories last night. I'll be going back to your site for more too.

Rocky bluffs. Cats like sunning themselves on them.

great

[rainshadow1]

I've been seriously considering trying for cougar (and/or bear) this year and I keep wondering about the likelihood of being hunted myself. I've tried browsing past topics about cougar hunting and have read the following:
1. Cougar hunting is not effective without dogs.
2. You've got to be in great shape to even consider chasing cats. (how great of shape?)
3. The likelihood of finding a cougar is extremely small.
4. Cats sneaking up on hunters

I'm still a newbie hunter, so I'm wondering how realistic any of these thoughts are before I devote a bunch of time to it. But also have been watching the game camera threads and seeing how the animal populations are changing from ungulates to predators.  And if hunting should continue, I should be working on predators too, right? Doing a guided trip is definitely not in the budget this year.

Thoughts?

I'll chime in on your initial questions here too...

1.) Depends on your definition of "Effective."

To go out and harvest one? Yes, dogs for sure, and those of an outfitter who has been out locating and identifying Lions for many season in his area, and already that season as well.

But to have the chance to kill one, effective? Tracking and calling are both also effective. Just not as high percentage.

I rate calling higher than tracking (you can tell by my website), but I'm not a mountain goat! I know a few guys who can give a mt goat a run for their money, and they have a good chance! This relates to question 2 and question 4 as well. Get on a hot track and just GO! You can imagine....


2.) Yes, to track one down. You can't be crippled to call, but you don't have to be a triathlete. No small feat to chase dogs either, honestly.


3.) Anymore, in Washington, Oregon, most of the west, actually... there's a lot of cats. You get in the right areas in the right conditions, you might be amazed. I've crossed 4 different cats in the same day on the peninsula. I know a 7 mile ridge in NE that probably had 5 cats on it at the same time. There are places like that in SE.  There are lots of cats. You do have to invest some gas and leather into locating, but there's lots of cats. Most times, especially with calling, you don't know you found one until they're already gone. Many times you never know. Part of the thrill and challenge when you find out you had one looking at you and didn't realize it.... but that probably frustrates the pudding out of the hound guys!


4.) As was mentioned, the called cat is coming to the call sound. Either in your hand, or set up out in front of you. But they're not coming in to a human... as far as they know. The dynamic of the cat personality is changing slightly with the overpopulation we're experiencing, but for the most part, they are not aggressive predators. They're very shy. They prefer to not be seen. They mostly are unseen. Things are changing with the huge numbers (relative to their lifestyle and territorial patterns) we have now, and I can't guarantee one won't come across an aggressive cat... but it's just not normal. They're an elusive, stealth, patient animal. It's not normally to be feared. (It's a longer discussion than that, all of these are, but that's the nutshell.)



Do it. December, on into the spring in some areas. Lite snow shows you tracks and will put you miles ahead, but patterning and locating kills can get you within earshot... go for it!  It's FUN! 

[Eric M]

Jennabug, in your original post you said and/or bear. I didn't know much about bear hunting but spent almost 3 weeks in the field last year and got one because I found where they were eating. It's easier to do that with bears especially when they are hitting the fruit hard. Cats follow the herds unless they have a kill to munch on but the berry bushes dont move. If I did it over again I would have purchased one of @bearpaw maps he sells on his website. But I was hardheaded. Just my two cents but I think you have a higher chance for success with bears, at least short term.