Suggestions for the new WDFW director Susewind

[bigtex]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

[Fl0und3rz]

The customer is always right.  Know your customer.

[KFhunter]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then.  The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"

It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs. 

[idahohuntr]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then.  The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"

It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.

The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.

"Closed" is a simple regulation.

That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers.  Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.

[bigtex]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then.  The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"

It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.

The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.

"Closed" is a simple regulation.

That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers.  Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.

Each state has "stupid rules".

Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.

Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.

Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."

A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays

[idahohuntr]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then.  The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"

It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.

The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.

"Closed" is a simple regulation.

That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers.  Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.

Each state has "stupid rules".

Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.

Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.

Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."

A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays

None of the rules you cited restrict law abiding sportsman from engaging in otherwise open/legal seasons.  Things like no rifle while archery hunting (even though bear season is open) is what I'm referring to...again, it must be that Wa has inferior wardens.

[KFhunter]

Washington doesn't have wardens.

meh, no reason to attack WDFW Police, they don't write the rules. 


My point is WDFW Olympia is a self serving bureaucracy, in another thread we're all talking about the increase in licenses and tags and request for more funds "to being back services that declined or went away since the recession" but it's not to gain access, open roads, improve habitat or to in any way make things better for hunting, fishing, or outdoor recreation...it's all to fund the behemoth in Olympia (and grow it) so they can churn out more and more regulations.

[Stein]

I do have sympathy for WDFW in that Olympia jacked their funding for whatever they spend it on.  Thus, I'm all for an across the board tax on every citizen in WA to manage their property and wildlife as opposed to lumping a huge portion on sportsmen and then given everyone a say in every cute animal management plan.

So, either everyone pays or only those who pay have a say.  I'm good with either approach.

[idahohuntr]

Washington doesn't have wardens.

meh, no reason to attack WDFW Police, they don't write the rules. 


My point is WDFW Olympia is a self serving bureaucracy, in another thread we're all talking about the increase in licenses and tags and request for more funds "to being back services that declined or went away since the recession" but it's not to gain access, open roads, improve habitat or to in any way make things better for hunting, fishing, or outdoor recreation...it's all to fund the behemoth in Olympia (and grow it) so they can churn out more and more regulations.

Where do you think the crap comes from that I just described?  Its proposed and supported by weak minded wdfw police and administrators. 

[KFhunter]

I don't know the inner workings of WDFW, but it's been lamented on this board for years that WDFW Police (rank and file) have no input in the rule making process.

I was glad when they lost the court ruling allowing handguns while archery hunting

[Jonathan_S]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

Indeed. If people took the time to read a few other states, they’d see that there are seemingly odd and arbitrary rules in more than a few.

Btw... I REALLY wish I had one of those tags last year

[Special T]

I do have sympathy for WDFW in that Olympia jacked their funding for whatever they spend it on.  Thus, I'm all for an across the board tax on every citizen in WA to manage their property and wildlife as opposed to lumping a huge portion on sportsmen and then given everyone a say in every cute animal management plan.

So, either everyone pays or only those who pay have a say.  I'm good with either approach.

There seems to be a series of problems with how the User Pays fee based system is executed and who those services go to. The Discover Pass is the most blaring and obnoxious example.

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[blackveltbowhunter]

Focus heavily on improving hunting access.  It is so critical to retention, recruitment and the future of hunting it should be the highest priority program in WDFW. 

Some specifics:
1. Get rid of the hunt by permission scam...and any loopholes that allow people to enroll in programs that don't actually give average sportsmen much benefit.     
2. Substantially increase funding to pay for access agreements.  Prioritize long term agreements to large land tracts.
3. Incentivize landowners to provide access...tax breaks, habitat work, patrols, maybe even limited numbers of tags.
4.  Setup a committee of sportsmen to prioritize how access funding is spent.

Frankly, if wdfw said they needed 30 million to open up all the private western wa timberlands and a bunch of other areas in this state, I'd drive to Olympia to advocate on their behalf.  30 million to pay a bunch of wolf facilitators, management positions etc...they can pound sand.

  x10 in the world of Hunter recruitment that so many on here are always talking about, all of it pales in comparison to access to decent hunting area. Telling a brand new Hunter to just lay down boot leather in gpnf and risk seeing nothing, or go buy a 300 dollar pass in a 5 minute time slot for some untried private timberland is hurting hunter recruitment way more than the random negative comment on huntwa. IMO

[Fishmaker57]

After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.

So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:

Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.

Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.

Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.

Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.

Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!

Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.

The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......

[jagermiester]

Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.

People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.

There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.

I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.

There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.

We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then.  The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"

It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.

The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.

"Closed" is a simple regulation.

That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers.  Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.

Each state has "stupid rules".

Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.

Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.

Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."

A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays

Just to clarify I think all of this is what we need to avoid.....
Right??

I can imagine a world where we buy our hunting licenses and tags online and need very little paper trail. Follow the regs and if we get stopped by a warden we would give them our Wild ID they can look up our information. If we have a animal that needs a tag it would be on that animal. New hunters take a simple class and that's it. I realize this is grossly over simplified but this is the culture thing that I was talking about in my initial post. Right now it feels like it is becoming us against them.

I will say this; the few times that I have had interactions with Wardens in the field over the last 30 years. They have all been pleasant and low key cool headed individuals.