My 50 Cal Full Bore Project

[reelamin]

My summarized thoughts

1000ftlb is low on energy for a bull elk but that can be mitigated by good shot placement and bullet performance.

Lead conical, slow rainbow to the target otherwise you will be challenge to find the velocity to expand a bullet with the BC needed.

300 is a looong shot with open sights on game in the field.

For a front sight I would suggest a post or a lyman 17 with insert of your choice.

Perhaps a soft lead conical out of a sabot or paper patch if you can stablize it? That would allow you to push the lead harder?

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with to solve your challenge.

If you want muzzleloader does smokeless count? That opens a whole new conversation (without me talking).

Thanks for the input and everything you mention is a legit consideration.  1000lb is a solid number with a good broadside side shot, not quartering or long penetration needed.  Yes it will require the right bullet to expand or create a good wound channel and not just pass through.

300 is a long shot, but with proper sights, accurate rifle, proper environmental, good technique, its not as far as many think.   I have several center fires I could put just about anyone behind and hit a milk jug at 300yds.  I do it with the best shooter in my hunters ed class.  Have not had one miss yet. (Yes totally different application, but no different in concept)

Lead or Hard Cast is an option for sure, but is a last option at this time.   I'm really trying to get away from Sabot if possible and that is mainly to install a brake.  I can handle the recoil, but I want a brake so I'm trying it. 

I have a Lyman front globe with some Saver inserts sitting in the drawer just waiting until I'm done with this process.  The factory front fiber optic is huge and limits accurate shooting for me to 200yds max. 

On the project:  More sizing and checking how I can make bullets fit properly.  NOE does not make any mid sized bushings only in .001 increments.  My bore diameter I'm pretty sure is right between .500 and .501.  Bottom line...adjustable sizing die ordered so I can get the correct bullet/bore fit.   Not a huge deal, but we are on hold for another week.  I might try knurling my Barnes TEZ for better sabot grip and see if it helps or not.

[JimmyHoffa]

I wouldn't be as concerned with energy numbers with a .50 as I would a small cal rifle.  The momentum of the bullet will be important, and with the heavy bullets you aren't as dependent on speed squaring.  Also, once you are around .35 cal and up the bullet expansion isn't as critical as with sub-.35 cal.

[reelamin]

I'm still waiting for my sizing die.  Based on the tracking number it will be next week before it shows up.   Add in Christmas and what else should I expect ordering this time of year.   So I knurled (file technique) a lot of bullets to get ready.  Needless to say my hand is bruised and it is not easy to get them larger.  I was consistently able to gain at least .002 on all of them.  The solid copper Barnes and Thor by far were the hardest to gain on.   So, I'm still waiting to try some more bullets/combinations.

[Reidus]

Looks like fun!

I think a smokeless muzzleloader is the way to go. They shoot blackhorn no problem so legal everywhere except Idaho and oregon I belive. Probably not the cheapest but they shoot really well and handle the pressure well.

This is 3 shots from a 45 cal shooting blackhorn 209 at 100yds with a kinetic performance 302 bomb in the 2400fps ballpark. over 1800 ft-lbs of energy at 300yds and 19in of drop when zeroed 1" high at 100yds. Just need to mount a front sight on it so I can use it in WA.

[reelamin]

I agree 45 is the caliber with the most options.   If I go 45 then of course the best option is one that will take huge charges of powder/high pressure.  I'll try with a 50 for now and if that doesn't work I'll go for a 45 later.  The only down side is more money spent, but the upside is well worth it.    FYI...if your shooting 2400fps with that bullet your carrying 1800lbs to just shy of 400yds and still hitting the minimum 1600fps for expansion.   Do they really cost $2.00 each?  If they do that puts them out of what I want to spend on any bullet.  I plan to get some more testing done next week, and sure as heck the weather will turn miserable instead of nice like now.   

[Reidus]

it gets pretty costly by the time you buy a barrel, breech plug, primer modules, bullet sizing die, donor action and get someone to do the machining. I think you can do a remage style prefit for a rem 700 though. Costly but, the ballistics and accuracy are amazing!

Yes, the 302 bombs cost $2 ea. I can shoot about any
.451 or .452 bullet. I've shot hornady 240 xtp pistol bullets and 300 sst's. The main reason to shoot the bombs or similar is the bc. Just because of the higher bc, they have about double the energy at 500yds. With a scope it's pretty much like shootin a single shot rifle.

If you do end up going 45 cal, one of the cheapest guns I've seen is the cva optima v2 in 45-70 that have been converted to smokeless ml. Hankins custom rifles sells them for  $700-$800. I'd imagine they'd make a great blackhorn 209 rifle and get your accuracy/energy to 300yds.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Good luck.👍

[usmc74]

Are you worried that with max loads on a bighorn (plunger gun) you might get blowback from the ign system?

I remember Sabotloaders pix.

[reelamin]

Are you worried that with max loads on a bighorn (plunger gun) you might get blowback from the ign system?

I remember Sabotloaders pix.

Nope....I have run well past max loads in it with BP and I don't have any issue with the amount of blow back.  Yes it is there but not bothersome or worrisome with the 209 in FPJ.  No issue with black and caps...but BH209 and caps causes lots of cap fragments.  I don't use BH209 with caps in it anymore.  *(Thanks Sabotloader)

So my stuff showed up early, so I went to work to find a better fit.   t was exactly as I expected exactly between to even thousandths.   Go figure, but that is why they have adjustable sizing dies.  No time to finish it up as other things took some priority, but hopefully this weekend and next week I can do some shooting

[reelamin]

Here are a couple pics of my file knurling and the commercial knurling.  The Fury bullet (star tip folded in the other is a 350gr Sierra) uses a machine style knurler (I will get one of the machines if this project works out) and you can see the different surface area.  The file knurling is harder to push down due to more surface area, but not so hard as unable to in hunting situation.   That being said I just wonder what one will shoot more accurately. 

The bullets with a large cupped base would jam in the sizer, but I put a MMP base wad and it pushed them right through.  (Thanks Sabotloader!!)  So, I loaded up a bunch of tubes and am ready to go.  Just have to deliver a buddy his axe (I love re-doing old axes...well all but the older the better!!!)   in the morning and then going to burn some powder. 

[reelamin]

Today was another learning experience for sure.  I thought I had it dialed in, but she slapped me straight real quick.  Went to where I could shoot and set up to shoot my test loads.  (Every thing is with 120gr BH209)  The first one was a Fury sized to .5005, and they loaded fine and shot decent.  Then I used a diffrent base wad (MMP) and it was starting to get hard to load but tolerable still.   Did not shoot so well, but put those two close together so holds promise.  Went to load a Barnes sized to .5005 and negative not going, so I give it a few love taps thinking it will slide once its fully in.  Nope, stuck and my tools were in the shop...because I knew I had it dialed in.   Pack up head home and clear it out, so I thought I would try another bullet and same thing.  I tried the Thor I knurled (Thor body is .500) and sized to .5005, and got it down farther but still stuck!  AAAAGGGHHHHH you have got to be kidding me.   Oh well I have some more Fury's to try ready to go, so run back to the range (with tools) and load the first one and its tight but fits.   Different target but it is right in the same group as the previous targets. (Notice the yellow backer as I stacked the targets)  Go to load the second one and its tight, so I give it some love taps and she slides more.  Put the range rod and it wont move, so I am putting a lot of weight on it and break the dang end.   WTH???!!!!  You are kidding right?? 

So I drive it out and get everything going again.  I go with a bullet I know will fit because the body is small and the skirt is sized to (350gr Hornady FB with a MMP base)  The clouds move in so no chrono speed and the group is terrible.  3 shots strung laterally about 8"!  I did not expect it to shoot well because only the very base makes contact with the rifling.  Screw it...I load up and go back to the shop.  I clean the gun, test fit and only the fury really feel correct.  I guess my excitement over rode the actual fit with the file knurling.   The surface area is a lot more with the file, and they are too tight at .5005 after a few shots!!  come outside after getting it all done...and blue skys but not enough time to get back to the range. 

So, back at it tomorrow with .5005 sized Fury and a few .500 other bullets.  Hope I get some shooting in. 

[HntnFsh]

Might just be the picture, but that bullet your holding in your fingers looks badly bulged on the right side. The knurling doesn't look very uniform. Where are you taking your measurements?

[HntnFsh]

Looked again and I  think part of what I'm seeing is the tip of your finger. But it still doesn't look right.

[reelamin]

Might just be the picture, but that bullet your holding in your fingers looks badly bulged on the right side. The knurling doesn't look very uniform. Where are you taking your measurements?

No it is bulged....i found that out this morning.   No question from getting it stuck and from knocking it out of the barrel.   i didnt even thing of I should have read your post before heading out this morning.  So obviously today was another day of frustration.  The first Fury to load I grabbed the used Fury out of pure luck and of course it stuck.  No I am furious as I checked it last night (new sized not bulged) Why did I not resize or check it....another lesson learned for sure??   So I just grip and rip with pliers (was trying to save them as they are expensive) and huck it into the bushes. 

So I load up my 290 TEZ hunting load, and it shoots right at the group size it should.  I had lightly file knurled them for better grip on the sabot.  No change noted.   Well at least I haven't screwed up the gun totally!!  So what the heck lets try a .500 Barnes MZ with a base wad, and as I load it I know it will not shoot well.   First round is a foot away and is starting to keyhole as it hits the target next to the one I was aiming at.  That does not even bother me as I knew it would not.   So, back to the shop to re-size the few Fury I have left (more arriving any day) so I dont stick anymore.

Any ideas?  Opinions (outiside of im wasiting my time and money..lol), Suggestions?  I was thinking leave the sizing lube on the file knurled bullets and see if they will seat.

[Karl Blanchard]

I cant believe I'm saying this right now as I'm a self proclaimed hater but have you tried just a good old fashioned powerbelt? Or any of the aerotips? I know you aretrying to hit some min numbers, but a king off your powder charge a bit may help accuracy (at least in my experience). Numbers on paper are just that. Those big heavy bullets have a lot of Pop even at 300 yards.