Colockum Elk Discussion

[Happy Gilmore]

just curious, not trying to be negative but, there are very few road/trail closures from Naches to Easton. Why is that area not having problems that seem to plague Colockum?

I just feel closures are not a bad thing for certain areas but, I will never vote or support any initiative which limits my ability to enjoy and utilize public land year round. It starts as road closures, then trail closures, then area closures...it is the first step in taking away recreation in most circumstances. It gives a reason to limit access. Once access is limited, it makes the process much easier for full closure.

Seems to me, the biggest complaint is poaching and legal poaching. Closing roads will never stop a poacher. Putting in barriers will not stop someone from going around, going further off road and doing more damage to the area. It is a band aid. I don't have the answers but, I would not agree with any road closures.

[colockumelk]

The Naches/Easton area you described is alot thicker and has alot more dense vegetation.  Also to begin with there are far fewer roads in the Naches/Easton area compared to the Colockum.  In the Colockum there is literally roads that go down into almost every draw and canyon.  Since the Colockum is so open and has so much road access then this has a very negative impact on the elk population.  And most of the road closures I'm talking about are roads that are already closed, they just don't have a physical road closure.  The unit is a green dot unit and relies on peoples honesty.  So putting tank traps or gates up would dramatically cut down on people taking their ATV's down these roads that their not supposed to.  You are also correct in that people will always find a way.  That is the nature of crime.  You can't completely defeat it but you can do things do reduce it.  

While poaching and tribal hunting do affect the bull to cow ratio in the Colockum.  The biggest problem in the Colockum is spike recruitment.  Spike harvest in the Colockum (328/329) is far higher than the other GMU.  The following is the average spike harvest of elk per the GMU's.

Colockum (328,329) 270 spikes per year.
Peaches Ridge (346,336)  132 spikes per year.  (Twice as much)
Observatory(342,340) 138 spikes per year (Twice as much)
Goose Prairie(352,356) 78 spikes per year. (3.5 times as much)
GMU (364,368)   165 spikes per year.

So you can see that the Colockum kills off way more spikes per year than the other GMUs.  Twice as much in fact.  This is why we need to close some of those roads down so the elk in the Colockum have a place to escape to. 

[Happy Gilmore]

The Naches/Easton area you described is alot thicker and has alot more dense vegetation.  Also to begin with there are far fewer roads in the Naches/Easton area compared to the Colockum.  In the Colockum there is literally roads that go down into almost every draw and canyon.  Since the Colockum is so open and has so much road access then this has a very negative impact on the elk population.  And most of the road closures I'm talking about are roads that are already closed, they just don't have a physical road closure.  The unit is a green dot unit and relies on peoples honesty.  So putting tank traps or gates up would dramatically cut down on people taking their ATV's down these roads that their not supposed to.  You are also correct in that people will always find a way.  That is the nature of crime.  You can't completely defeat it but you can do things do reduce it.  

While poaching and tribal hunting do affect the bull to cow ratio in the Colockum.  The biggest problem in the Colockum is spike recruitment.  Spike harvest in the Colockum (328/329) is far higher than the other GMU.  The following is the average spike harvest of elk per the GMU's.

Colockum (328,329) 270 spikes per year.
Peaches Ridge (346,336)  132 spikes per year.  (Twice as much)
Observatory(342,340) 138 spikes per year (Twice as much)
Goose Prairie(352,356) 78 spikes per year. (3.5 times as much)
GMU (364,368)   165 spikes per year.

So you can see that the Colockum kills off way more spikes per year than the other GMUs.  Twice as much in fact.  This is why we need to close some of those roads down so the elk in the Colockum have a place to escape to. 

I could see closing some roads but, all the roads up there inter-connect. Already green dots, close one or close all. That is what it will come down to. They'll just gate the bottom and if you don't have a horse, you're out of luck. That is how I see it happening.

[bankwalker]

you would only be closing off the "dead end" roads and the "short cut" roads. keep the main roads all open but just close off the ones that are not needed. like the short cuts through a valley or over the top of a ridge or w/e

[colockumelk]

you would only be closing off the "dead end" roads and the "short cut" roads. keep the main roads all open but just close off the ones that are not needed. like the short cuts through a valley or over the top of a ridge or w/e

Basically exactly what bankwalker says.  No one is implying that we should close off all of the roads.  We're just saying the dead ends and the short cut ones. 

The RMEF and the WDFW have already got some grants to close off some roads so I need to talk with them and see where I or we can help.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Thanks Yellow Dog.  i don't know anything about setting up a non-profit organization so that is the info I was looking to find thanks.  And thanks everyone on input on how to best close up some roads.  Thank you.  Looks like the WDFW is all about closing at least the roads that already are closed just need a phycial barrier.  The DNR that's another story in itself.  I also understand the RMEF is trying to get some grants for some road closures so I need to get back with them.  Thanks for the help and keep the advice coming.  I need all the help I can get.

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 The Same RMEF (Which I am a member of) that scheduled it's February 28 Banquet at the Snoqualmie (tribal) Casino?





 As  for  road closures.....What roads would you close? and how?? The green dot system(and before) already has closed almost all of the  interconnecting and short cut roads.

 Gates closed during tribal seasons I would be all for. For some of us to spend time up there during the time the tribes are up there with cameras, video,and maybe doing some target shooting. If we were to get some particularly offensive pics we could explore the different outlets to get it to the publics attention.
 

[colockumelk]

The roads they plan on closing and the roads I would suggest they close are the ones that are already closed.  However they are not physically closed.  THey simply have signs that many people and especially poachers ignore.  We simply just want to put physical barriers to keep the majority of people from driving down roads that they already shouldn't be driving down as it is. 

For some of us to spend time up there during the time the tribes are up there with cameras, video,and maybe doing some target shooting. If we were to get some particularly offensive pics we could explore the different outlets to get it to the publics attention.

Elkaholic this is exactly what many of us plan on doing.  Is filming them shooting multiple bulls a day and showing how they do it.  I'm glad we think alike.  Many of us on here plan on playing papparazzi this year. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

  Just curious when we should get started on that one?

[bankwalker]

  Just curious when we should get started on that one?

yeah i would like to know whats going on with this topic? havent heard much about it for a while, and i hate to see it just die off.

[huntnphool]

how about an update

[colockumelk]

Sorry,
I havn't forgotten about it.  I've just been really busy trying to work, graduate and take care of my kid.  In a couple of weeks i'll have free time again and can give this the attention it deserves.

[whacker1]

Just my two cents.  I don't have an opinion one way or the other on closing roads in that area as I am not familiar with the area. 

However, on the setting up of an organization - not sure you want to go down that path.  It typically takes a better part of 9 months to get 501c3 non-profit status, then you have to maintain it.  You would be better off to work with RMEF or some similar organization to enlist their help in doing such a thing.  I am also not familiar with what RMEF has for parameters as to who they will grant money to (regards to type of entity).

If you can just form a loose sportsman's coalition that would be your best bet, but I imagine RMEF wants more accountability in tax stature than this format.

[colockumelk]

Yeah that's a good point.  And actually RMEF got a grant to start some physical road closures of the roads that are already closed down.  So I did a lot of research and work to find out the RMEF was stealing my thunder.   But no biggie I'm glad someone is doing it. 

[Yak-NDN]

For some of us to spend time up there during the time the tribes are up there with cameras, video,and maybe doing some target shooting. If we were to get some particularly offensive pics we could explore the different outlets to get it to the publics attention.

This is a good idea coloclk I will give you a call when I head out I always wanted my very own camera bit## I could have some of the best video footage possible if only I could get someone to follow me around. We could be bigger than Primos. (Big Bulls Legally Poached) who wouldn't buy it, We could make money killing elk just like all the other people filming elk hunt's and selling them. Do you think we could get some video of the state hunters running the elk to near death during general season in the colockum. This might help your idea with drawing only.

[SHANE(WA)]

neat post lol