WDFW Predator Lawsuit

[bigtex]

If it were impossible to win, it wouldn't be filed.

I disagree with you on this part. Lawsuits are filed all the time that are impossible to win, or are meaningless. That's why many lawsuits are dismissed by a judge early in the process. Not saying that it will happen in this case, but just because its filed doesnt mean it has a chance to win.

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[pianoman9701]

OK. Happy New Year BT.

[Special T]

If it were impossible to win, it wouldn't be filed.

I disagree with you on this part. Lawsuits are filed all the time that are impossible to win, or are meaningless. That's why many lawsuits are dismissed by a judge early in the process. Not saying that it will happen in this case, but just because its filed doesnt mean it has a chance to win.

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Perhaps others have a better memory for this than me... Animal Rights activists are constantly filing lawsuits that may or may not go anywhere... Are there any Sportsmens Rights groups that attack the issue in the same way? I cant think of any.

Im thinking of something Akin to the 2A  Foundation but for sportsmen...

Additionally most Sportsmen Orgs dont seem to have funds or stomach to Throw money at lawsuits since most are conservation based.  Look at how long it took RMEF to even speak out against the lack of management of wolves!

Ive heard a lot of folks on here cry for some one to "Do Something!" about predators in this state. Hopefully plenty of us will donate funds or support whom ever is filing this.

[pianoman9701]

I think once they see it, they'll see 1. that it isn't impossible to win, and 2. They need to become financially invested in its success.

[idahohuntr]

Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.

From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels. 

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.

I'm talking about only the PR side, not the legal side.  As I've previously stated, I'm withholding judgement until substantially more detail is presented on the lawsuit - but with the limited information provided thus far - I see no path to success for a lawsuit at this time.  Hence a PR effort might be more fruitful and my point still stands...a successful PR campaign would follow what I outline above.  The PR campaign is not directed at the crazies on the enviro side...you'll never convince them of anything.  It's to convince that middle 80% voting bloc that we need more balanced wildlife management than is occurring.

This is a lawsuit, not an initiative. You don't need to convince the general public of anything. You need to convince 12 jurors and a judge after facts and testimony have been presented to them. I would imagine the purpose of the above stickers would be to raise money for the suit. Appeal to sportsmen.

I'm not talking about this individual theoretical lawsuit - I'm talking about balanced wildlife management in this state - the PR side is very critical.  It's very possible there really is no substantive merit to this supposed lawsuit...so you don't need to worry about a jury...it has little chance of ever getting there.  The PR stuff could much more likely influence policy and legislation - and that is a path to more successful predator management.

Frankly, I'm becoming more convinced that somebody has decided to try and capitalize on the anger and fears of folks against wolves and this lawsuit will be nothing but a sham way to make big $$ for some people or organizations.  The Enviro crazies have been doing this successfully for decades...many of their attorneys and senior execs don't care about wildlife...but they do know how to make $$ playing on the emotions of their uneducated followers.  This same model would work for those passionately against wolves...so I urge anyone to be very cautious before sending hard earned money to some group promising a lawsuit that sounds too good to be true.  The consistent calls for money and donations to support this effort combined with nobody providing a solid set of details or facts about this lawsuit should be a major red flag for everyone.  A fool and his money...     

[pianoman9701]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you didn't know what you were talking about. 

[Special T]

@idahohuntr Is there an sportsmens organization that you know of that operates this way?

Hard to send any $ when we dont know who it is... Apparently Bearpaw Does.   Do you think BP would risk his Name and Reputation on his own site when he no doubt would suffer in his main business if he helped Fleece sportsmen in WA?

Perhaps the question should be What kinds of actions related to Predator issues could the lawsuit be about? Obviously it cant be some General They are screwing us and its obvious lawsuit.

[Tbar]

I continue to withhold judgement until more details are known...but I don't get warm fuzzies if big ag is behind the lawsuit.  At best there is a narrow overlap where a byproduct of their efforts might be beneficial to sportsmen.  However, on a host of issues most farm bureau and ag industry folks are not sportsmen friendly.  I'm sure they would be happy to take sportsmen's hard earned money and use us as a pawn in their game though.
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Although they would most certainly benefit, "Big AG" or the Cattleman's Association aren't involved. This suit will be completely founded (and funded) by sportsmen.
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Honest question piano, grassroots or hunting organization?

[bearpaw]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you didn't know what you were talking about. 

Amen, he has no details but has condemned it! 

The details will all come out when it's time! Until then we hope hunters will simply get the word out to other hunters that this suit is coming. Once it's filed and everyone can read it and see who is involved, then you can decide if you want to support it in any way. If anyone wants to offer constructive ideas to help that is great.

[bearpaw]

@idahohuntr Is there an sportsmens organization that you know of that operates this way?

Hard to send any $ when we dont know who it is... Apparently Bearpaw Does.   Do you think BP would risk his Name and Reputation on his own site when he no doubt would suffer in his main business if he helped Fleece sportsmen in WA?

Perhaps the question should be What kinds of actions related to Predator issues could the lawsuit be about? Obviously it cant be some General They are screwing us and its obvious lawsuit.

Thank you for thinking before condemning! 

[bearpaw]

I continue to withhold judgement until more details are known...but I don't get warm fuzzies if big ag is behind the lawsuit.  At best there is a narrow overlap where a byproduct of their efforts might be beneficial to sportsmen.  However, on a host of issues most farm bureau and ag industry folks are not sportsmen friendly.  I'm sure they would be happy to take sportsmen's hard earned money and use us as a pawn in their game though.

Although they would most certainly benefit, "Big AG" or the Cattleman's Association aren't involved.

This suit will be completely founded (and funded) by sportsmen.

Honest question piano, grassroots or hunting organization?

That will obviously be revealed when the suit is filed!

[idahohuntr]

@idahohuntr Is there an sportsmens organization that you know of that operates this way?

Hard to send any $ when we dont know who it is... Apparently Bearpaw Does.   Do you think BP would risk his Name and Reputation on his own site when he no doubt would suffer in his main business if he helped Fleece sportsmen in WA?

Perhaps the question should be What kinds of actions related to Predator issues could the lawsuit be about? Obviously it cant be some General They are screwing us and its obvious lawsuit.

Per the order of your questions:
1. I would put SFW/BGF in this camp of screwing sportsmen to make $$.  I do not know of any others that operate in such a shady way at this time.
2. Many of the wolf lovers are duped into sending money thinking they are doing good deeds.  Sportsmen could be just as susceptible.  I do not believe anyone, BP included, would intentionally support an effort to fleece sportsmen.
3. Yes, those are good questions.  I've stated all along I'm withholding judgement until all the details are known. If  this theoretical lawsuit is targeting some specific action (or lack of action) that is/was arbitrary and there is solid evidence to support a correction and such a correction is a good thing for wildlife management I would be a big supporter.  If it's some sham that has no merit and has negative repercussions to wildlife management - I will be a big critic.  And of course it could be somewhere in the middle...point being, until details are known its hard to blindly support and so I continue to urge caution. 

[Special T]

Please forgive my Ignorance... Im not sure what organizations these are..  SFW/BGF

[pianoman9701]

I continue to withhold judgement until more details are known...but I don't get warm fuzzies if big ag is behind the lawsuit.  At best there is a narrow overlap where a byproduct of their efforts might be beneficial to sportsmen.  However, on a host of issues most farm bureau and ag industry folks are not sportsmen friendly.  I'm sure they would be happy to take sportsmen's hard earned money and use us as a pawn in their game though.

Although they would most certainly benefit, "Big AG" or the Cattleman's Association aren't involved. This suit will be completely founded (and funded) by sportsmen.
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Honest question piano, grassroots or hunting organization?
[/quote]

I've said all I can say. It is sportsmen and not AG.

[idahohuntr]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you didn't know what you were talking about. 

Amen, he has no details but has condemned it! 

The details will all come out when it's time! Until then we hope hunters will simply get the word out to other hunters that this suit is coming. Once it's filed and everyone can read it and see who is involved, then you can decide if you want to support it in any way. If anyone wants to offer constructive ideas to help that is great.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?  Please spread the word about our secret lawsuit that we can't tell you anything about...