WDFW Predator Lawsuit

[idahohuntr]

Please forgive my Ignorance... Im not sure what organizations these are..  SFW/BGF

Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) and Big Game Forever (BGF).  I hate to mention them for fear of derailing this thread but Google them...there are a ton of controversial threads about those orgs.

Interesting... They both seem Utah based

I don't believe he's saying they have anything at all to do with this pending lawsuit.
(Reply #161)

@idahohuntr Is there an sportsmens organization that you know of that operates this way?

Hard to send any $ when we dont know who it is... Apparently Bearpaw Does.   Do you think BP would risk his Name and Reputation on his own site when he no doubt would suffer in his main business if he helped Fleece sportsmen in WA?

Perhaps the question should be What kinds of actions related to Predator issues could the lawsuit be about? Obviously it cant be some General They are screwing us and its obvious lawsuit.

Per the order of your questions:
1. I would put SFW/BGF in this camp of screwing sportsmen to make $$.  I do not know of any others that operate in such a shady way at this time.
2. Many of the wolf lovers are duped into sending money thinking they are doing good deeds.  Sportsmen could be just as susceptible.  I do not believe anyone, BP included, would intentionally support an effort to fleece sportsmen.
3. Yes, those are good questions.  I've stated all along I'm withholding judgement until all the details are known. If  this theoretical lawsuit is targeting some specific action (or lack of action) that is/was arbitrary and there is solid evidence to support a correction and such a correction is a good thing for wildlife management I would be a big supporter.  If it's some sham that has no merit and has negative repercussions to wildlife management - I will be a big critic.  And of course it could be somewhere in the middle...point being, until details are known its hard to blindly support and so I continue to urge caution. 

[/quote]
Correct. I have no idea who is behind this lawsuit - I just cited those two groups as evidence that organizations of hunters do things that make money but are not necessarily good for sportsmen...but not everyone shares my assessment of those two groups...so not wanting to debate that here.

[bearpaw]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you didn't know what you were talking about. 

Amen, he has no details but has condemned it! 

The details will all come out when it's time! Until then we hope hunters will simply get the word out to other hunters that this suit is coming. Once it's filed and everyone can read it and see who is involved, then you can decide if you want to support it in any way. If anyone wants to offer constructive ideas to help that is great.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?  Please spread the word about our secret lawsuit that we can't tell you anything about... 

I don't care what you may say to insult me, all that matters is that something positive is being worked on that will hopefully result in better predator management in Washington, that is what really matters!   

Nor do I care what you and others say to insult me - we are all interested in successful management of this states wildlife. 

It was not my intention to insult you, I thought I was on the receiving end of that, my apologies if you thought I was insulting you. My only intention with this topic is to spread the word to hunters so that we can gather support for this once everyone has had a chance to read it after being filed.

[idahohuntr]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you didn't know what you were talking about. 

Amen, he has no details but has condemned it! 

The details will all come out when it's time! Until then we hope hunters will simply get the word out to other hunters that this suit is coming. Once it's filed and everyone can read it and see who is involved, then you can decide if you want to support it in any way. If anyone wants to offer constructive ideas to help that is great.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?  Please spread the word about our secret lawsuit that we can't tell you anything about... 

I don't care what you may say to insult me, all that matters is that something positive is being worked on that will hopefully result in better predator management in Washington, that is what really matters!   

Nor do I care what you and others say to insult me - we are all interested in successful management of this states wildlife. 

It was not my intention to insult you, I thought I was on the receiving end of that, my apologies if you thought I was insulting you. My only intention with this topic is to spread the word to hunters so that we can gather support for this once everyone has had a chance to read it after being filed.

And my only intention is that we don't just "pass it to find out what's in it". 

I realize you have much more detail than I do so that probably explains why you are more comfortable gathering support. 

[Special T]

Please forgive my Ignorance... Im not sure what organizations these are..  SFW/BGF

Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) and Big Game Forever (BGF).  I hate to mention them for fear of derailing this thread but Google them...there are a ton of controversial threads about those orgs.

Interesting... They both seem Utah based

I don't believe he's saying they have anything at all to do with this pending lawsuit.
(Reply #161)

@idahohuntr Is there an sportsmens organization that you know of that operates this way?

Hard to send any $ when we dont know who it is... Apparently Bearpaw Does.   Do you think BP would risk his Name and Reputation on his own site when he no doubt would suffer in his main business if he helped Fleece sportsmen in WA?

Perhaps the question should be What kinds of actions related to Predator issues could the lawsuit be about? Obviously it cant be some General They are screwing us and its obvious lawsuit.

Per the order of your questions:
1. I would put SFW/BGF in this camp of screwing sportsmen to make $$.  I do not know of any others that operate in such a shady way at this time.
2. Many of the wolf lovers are duped into sending money thinking they are doing good deeds.  Sportsmen could be just as susceptible.  I do not believe anyone, BP included, would intentionally support an effort to fleece sportsmen.
3. Yes, those are good questions.  I've stated all along I'm withholding judgement until all the details are known. If  this theoretical lawsuit is targeting some specific action (or lack of action) that is/was arbitrary and there is solid evidence to support a correction and such a correction is a good thing for wildlife management I would be a big supporter.  If it's some sham that has no merit and has negative repercussions to wildlife management - I will be a big critic.  And of course it could be somewhere in the middle...point being, until details are known its hard to blindly support and so I continue to urge caution. 

[/quote]

I didnt think that. I just was unfamiliar with them and just noted that they seemed Utah based. 

[wolfbait]

Once the suit is filed and all the info is public record I'm sure there will be many others who will want to help in any way they can. I had pretty much written off Washington as being totally lost, this is the last best chance we have to turn wildlife management around in WA, we must hope for success! 

Everyone I have shared the potential lawsuit with is eager to help in the funding, including ranchers, and ATV users, the response is of course very positive.


The feedback has been "something needs to be done".

[ELKBURGER]

I appreciate the heads up of this upcoming legal action. Once more details are revealed, we can all assess who will need our support and in what way. We all know our fish and game department has run our fisheries and wildlife into the ground. Something has to be done!

[Special T]

On this site there has always been complaining about inadequate predator control. From the early days when hound hunting was first banned and member Kain did a bunch of research and wrote about it roughly 8 years ago and the arguing about the original quotas.  I couldn't find the thread that talked about it, but the change in definition of the population and quotas we have now that changed the population definition to only mature cats over age 2, and yet any cat younger harvested below that age still counted tword the quota... Keeping our "population estimate" around 3k cats.

Despite the discussions and complaints about tribal hunting  I cant help but notice a pivot in folks reactions to tribes. Now that there is a realization that the same animosity of Tribal freedom may make them great allies in predator control.  The Spokane & Colville have been hunting wolves. The recent pursuit of the Colville to hunt them on the North Half now that they are no longer federally listed. The lack of influence Animal Rights Activist groups have over the tribes have allowed this. It seems plausible that the wildlife science from the tribes are less politically motivated and more self interested. This self interest has been a source for confrontation in the past but it appears to line up nicely with the needs of sportsmen since we have been incapable of influencing change on our own effectively.

These links are not an exhaustive search of the issues found here on HW or the internet. They are a representation of some of the highlights I think may be at play with a potential lawsuit. My mind wandered quite a bit because so much documentation has been shared on this site but not really organized.  Perhaps in our wait to find out who and what this lawsuit is all about you can recall some pointed threads that had articles or studies that showed the need for predator management.

Gov Inslee  veto's work done on cougar quotas.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,184310.0.html

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/inslee-reverses-panels-decision-to-increase-cougar-hunts/

Cat junk science
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,5731.msg62229.html#msg62229

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,106150.msg1385229.html#msg1385229

Studies done by the Tribes on cats.

https://peerj.com/preprints/1915.pdf

https://nwtreatytribes.org/lower-elwha-klallam-tribe-partners-tracking-cougars-in-olympic-mountains/


Tribal wolf hunting
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/colville-tribes-to-open-hunt-on-wolves-near-canadian-border/

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/spokane-tribe-hunt-targets-6-wolves/

[ne kid]

God bless the tribes growing up bordering the great Colville nation. I can personally say that they are helping with our wildlife 10 times more than wdfw, flying in hay to mule deer herds during bad winters years ago, flip over a salmon caught in the Columbia, and it should say MADE ON THE REZ, and with predator control. Rumour on the street is they are going all out on predator control, because they are seeing a drop in their herds. They are already paying 30$ per coyote tail heard wolves and bear are next.

[KFhunter]

$30 per tail for anyone or Colville's only?

[ne kid]

Colvilles only. from what I heard they are going to lay waste on predators this year

[jackelope]

@rosscrazyelk

[rosscrazyelk]

They should also be held accountable for mismanagement of our elk and deer herds.

I agree wholeheartedly

[trophyhunt]

They should also be held accountable for mismanagement of our elk and deer herds.

I agree wholeheartedly

[bearpaw]

I haven't heard any updates on the lawsuit recently but I've been busy. We are getting closer, last i heard it was going to happen in the spring!

[Bushcraft]

Patience people, patience.