Have corn pond complexes affected your 2018 duck season?

[Stein]

I hear you on the $/pound calculation.

Growing up, I couldn't believe guys would pay huge bucks to catch a few hatchery planted trout in MT rivers.  It's all what you are into I guess.

It sounds like there are so many ducks that I'm tempted to pony up $350 next year just to see the spectacle.

[HikerHunter]

I hear you on the $/pound calculation.

Growing up, I couldn't believe guys would pay huge bucks to catch a few hatchery planted trout in MT rivers.  It's all what you are into I guess.

It sounds like there are so many ducks that I'm tempted to pony up $350 next year just to see the spectacle.

Ethics and fair chase aside, I agree in being tempted to see the spectacle but I'm afraid of it all unfolding and being done in 30 minutes though...That's an expensive half hour!

[hunterednate]

I hear you on the $/pound calculation.

Growing up, I couldn't believe guys would pay huge bucks to catch a few hatchery planted trout in MT rivers.  It's all what you are into I guess.

It sounds like there are so many ducks that I'm tempted to pony up $350 next year just to see the spectacle.

Ethics and fair chase aside, I agree in being tempted to see the spectacle but I'm afraid of it all unfolding and being done in 30 minutes though...That's an expensive half hour!

You guys should do it and post the videos!

[EWUeagles]

I hear you on the $/pound calculation.

Growing up, I couldn't believe guys would pay huge bucks to catch a few hatchery planted trout in MT rivers.  It's all what you are into I guess.

It sounds like there are so many ducks that I'm tempted to pony up $350 next year just to see the spectacle.

Ethics and fair chase aside, I agree in being tempted to see the spectacle but I'm afraid of it all unfolding and being done in 30 minutes though...That's an expensive half hour!

It doesn't always go fast and it's still hunting. I know of 3 guys who did hunts with Eagle lakes this year and even though they all shot limits it was far from a 30 minute event. I know one guy who went and didn't shoot the gun till 11:30 am. They hold a ton of birds but they have roasting ponds and spots they don't hunt so the birds can sit but sooner or later they do start moving around. It's a little steep for me to pay that price but to each their own.

[3cityhuntr]

Since we finally got our winter in the basin......   What I’d be curious to know is whether or not these outfits continued to flood their corn and keep water open for the ducks to feed, or if they shut off everything and let the ponds drain or freeze.  With these temps and snow anything but moving water would freeze up and the snow will have covered any accessible food.

What I’m getting at here is the “habitat” argument.  Sure these guys might “feed” the birds when the season is open and they can profit from it but once the profit factor is gone they could care less what the birds do.  Just speculating here, for all I know they could still be running everything.  That would certainly lead to the argument of helping feed and sustain more birds for the migration north in the spring.  But if they shut off then ducks in the area would have headed south or starved, at least in the conditions we’ve had in the south basin.

If anyone knows the answer please chime in.

[Samloffler]

I dont know if the duck clubs keep water moving after the season or not. I do know they all keep standing water all year.

I was out running around connell/mesa that Saturday we got all the snow and there were ducks everywhere -on the ground and in the air- on public and private non-corn pond ground. You could have killed a limit standing in the middle of highway 260. Any open water on mesa lake was covered in birds, and the private corn pond place by the worth lake parking lot had nothing in the air.

You're free to interpret that information however you like. I think it shows that this season was crap all around. No weather, no ducks.

[HikerHunter]

I dont know if the duck clubs keep water moving after the season or not. I do know they all keep standing water all year.

I was out running around connell/mesa that Saturday we got all the snow and there were ducks everywhere -on the ground and in the air- on public and private non-corn pond ground. You could have killed a limit standing in the middle of highway 260. Any open water on mesa lake was covered in birds, and the private corn pond place by the worth lake parking lot had nothing in the air.

You're free to interpret that information however you like. I think it shows that this season was crap all around. No weather, no ducks.

Except that it wasn't "crap all around. No weather, no ducks." for those hunting the corn pond complexes. Eagle Lakes posted 152 duck limits (1,064 ducks) in one week in late December (limits for every hunter). They also stated they were on pace to "shatter all previous (goose) harvest records" and this was their "best year on snow geese".

I'd call that "No weather, plenty of birds concentrated on the corn pond complexes."

[Samloffler]

So birds go to easy food first? Weird. I still just see everyone complaining that they didnt get to shoot anything because eagle lakes did. Rationalize it all you want, but that's what it boils down to.

I'll say it again, there is nothing stopping anyone on here from paying to hunt these clubs or starting their own. Most of the complexes started with just a couple fields. Don't get mad, get even.

Every guide that doesn't have access to pond complexes does most of their hunting on ground they own or have exclusive hunting rights on. Are they also exploiting public resources for personal gain? I don't see anyone railing against them.

What about hunting corn fields? The birds have to eat, and you're hunting over the food that attracts them. In no other instance is "give an inch, take a mile" more true than when it comes to government. They can outlaw hunting over flooded corn and hunting over water you add corn to is already illegal, don't be surprised when they outlaw hunting food sources all together.

[EWUeagles]

I dont know if the duck clubs keep water moving after the season or not. I do know they all keep standing water all year.

I was out running around connell/mesa that Saturday we got all the snow and there were ducks everywhere -on the ground and in the air- on public and private non-corn pond ground. You could have killed a limit standing in the middle of highway 260. Any open water on mesa lake was covered in birds, and the private corn pond place by the worth lake parking lot had nothing in the air.

You're free to interpret that information however you like. I think it shows that this season was crap all around. No weather, no ducks.

I didn't realize they could plant corn in standing water? haha

Fear mongering isn't an argument. The Feds already have laws about baiting and have large parts of the Columbia shut down because of grain bins. I get you're point about don't get mad but get even but it's not that simple for one and it's more about birds than just shooting more.

Why isn't it that simple? Because it's a big business simple as that. When you talk to clubs that take 200k plus to buy into it how can you compete. I have access to fields that could be flooded but when talking to farmers it costs a king ransom to keep water in most fields and keep it from freezing. So to do that you have to open your own clubs or guide service which in my opinion compounds the problem.

It's not about just shooting birds. In my opinion waterfowl is a public resource there for the public not private enterprise. Grain complexes have seemed to change migration patterns and hold more birds than their natural carrying capacity. This leads to disease spread and we have seen this in recent years. Also all we talk about is hunter recruit and bringing new hunters into the sport. Why would someone get into the sport when it's turning into a sport about who has the most money?

I get that the guys who think everyone is whining will always think that and that's fine but until someone shows me some actual proof that grain complexes are good for the hunting community and good for ducks than I'll keep beating the drum of getting research done to show the affects of these areas. Lastly I'm not a big fan of guides but nobody wants to hear that haha. I think some are good for the sport and some are bad and probably should be regulated more but that's a topic for a different day.

[HikerHunter]

I'll say it again, there is nothing stopping anyone on here from paying to hunt these clubs or starting their own. Most of the complexes started with just a couple fields. Don't get mad, get even.

I'd venture to say there are plenty of people here that would never hunt a corn complex or want to start one on their own for many reasons including ethics, fair chase, etc. Baiting was made illegal for the benefit of waterfowl. It reduces the ability to slaughter massive amounts of birds and reduces concentrations that can easily and quickly spread disease as EWUeagles pointed out.

The US Dept. of Agriculture found that baiting pulled birds from good natural sources of food, reduces the urge to migrate, holds birds in areas that were not naturally adapted for wintering, and increased die-off from cold and starvation. It also found that baiting can tame birds to the point that they weren't afraid of blinds and would circled back after being fired on two or three more times.

The corn complexes are currently baiting, but legally through a loophole in a way that the regulations couldn't have anticipated. I don't think baiting waterfowl allows for fair chase, so that's what's stopping me from paying to hunt these clubs or starting my own. I doubt I'm alone in that boat.

[Mfowl]

I'll say it again, there is nothing stopping anyone on here from paying to hunt these clubs or starting their own. Most of the complexes started with just a couple fields. Don't get mad, get even.

I'd venture to say there are plenty of people here that would never hunt a corn complex or want to start one on their own for many reasons including ethics, fair chase, etc. Baiting was made illegal for the benefit of waterfowl. It reduces the ability to slaughter massive amounts of birds and reduces concentrations that can easily and quickly spread disease as EWUeagles pointed out.

The US Dept. of Agriculture found that baiting pulled birds from good natural sources of food, reduces the urge to migrate, holds birds in areas that were not naturally adapted for wintering, and increased die-off from cold and starvation. It also found that baiting can tame birds to the point that they weren't afraid of blinds and would circled back after being fired on two or three more times.

The corn complexes are currently baiting, but legally through a loophole in a way that the regulations couldn't have anticipated. I don't think baiting waterfowl allows for fair chase, so that's what's stopping me from paying to hunt these clubs or starting my own. I doubt I'm alone in that boat.

   I have no desire to hunt, own, build or manage corn ponds for pay or for free.

[Stein]

It is interesting me how different big game and waterfowl hunters are.  Don't shoot at a moving animal vs don't shoot at a bird on water.  We need to protect or ability to bait bears vs. baiting is unethical and not fair chase.

Just in case it isn't coming through, I'm not arguing or supporting either way, I think they both have very valid arguments from people who have thought it through.  It is just interesting to me how the two groups that are both hunters can view things so differently.

[EWUeagles]

It is interesting me how different big game and waterfowl hunters are.  Don't shoot at a moving animal vs don't shoot at a bird on water.  We need to protect or ability to bait bears vs. baiting is unethical and not fair chase.

Just in case it isn't coming through, I'm not arguing or supporting either way, I think they both have very valid arguments from people who have thought it through.  It is just interesting to me how the two groups that are both hunters can view things so differently.

I don't think big game vs waterfowl hunters look at things differently and a lot of us do both. They are different animals and different topics so comparing isn't really fair. Apples to oranges.

[hunterednate]

I dont know if the duck clubs keep water moving after the season or not. I do know they all keep standing water all year.

I was out running around connell/mesa that Saturday we got all the snow and there were ducks everywhere -on the ground and in the air- on public and private non-corn pond ground. You could have killed a limit standing in the middle of highway 260. Any open water on mesa lake was covered in birds, and the private corn pond place by the worth lake parking lot had nothing in the air.

You're free to interpret that information however you like. I think it shows that this season was crap all around. No weather, no ducks.

I actually talked to a WDFW biologist and property manager about this a couple months ago (he hates corn ponds, by the way - says it's IMPOSSIBLE for public land to compete, and says he's seen major changes in bird patterns as these ponds have more than doubled in volume in the last 15 years).

He said that ducks stop hitting grain sources as hard in February as they seek out invertebrate protein in marshlands. Apparently, the hens need the change in diet to prepare for egg formation as they pair up for nesting/breeding (and when private clubs stop running the ice eaters).

He says the same public lands that are vacant in January are covered up with birds in March every year (I'm sure hunting pressure is a big factor in this shift, too, by the way - probably the biggest factor. But corn ponds are still *a* factor, for sure).

[hunterednate]

So birds go to easy food first? Weird. I still just see everyone complaining that they didnt get to shoot anything because eagle lakes did. Rationalize it all you want, but that's what it boils down to.

I'll say it again, there is nothing stopping anyone on here from paying to hunt these clubs or starting their own. Most of the complexes started with just a couple fields. Don't get mad, get even.

Every guide that doesn't have access to pond complexes does most of their hunting on ground they own or have exclusive hunting rights on. Are they also exploiting public resources for personal gain? I don't see anyone railing against them.

What about hunting corn fields? The birds have to eat, and you're hunting over the food that attracts them. In no other instance is "give an inch, take a mile" more true than when it comes to government. They can outlaw hunting over flooded corn and hunting over water you add corn to is already illegal, don't be surprised when they outlaw hunting food sources all together.

Man, I had a blast hunting ducks this year - and the last few years...and have killed more than enough to keep me happy.

I'm just concerned about the trend corn ponds are setting for the future of our sport. I'm only 30, but I've seen big changes in the state of public duck hunting in WA over the last 15 years. What will it be like when I'm 45? or 60?

More corn ponds, holding more birds...effectively strangling hunter recruitment. Not a positive trend for waterfowling's future.