the Methow is even worse off than I thought

[davew]

I just got back from a week and a half in the Methow, spending most of my time between Twisp and Mazama.  Wow.  It's a wasteland for mulies.  While I didn't spend time specifically looking for deer, I skied a lot and drove many roads through prime winter range.  They just aren't there.  The mule deer herd is a small fraction of what it was even five years ago. 

The whitetails seem to be doing OK, although I did find a number of predator kills.   It takes less than 48 hours to convert a carcass to a red blotch in the snow. 

I did see a couple of moose at the Loup.  That was cool.   

[boneaddict]

Yep, it’s sad. 
And the WDFW is clueless

[ljsommer]

So what's the solution here? Remove OTC for muleys for a few years? I've never hunted muleys but based on the posts in this forum it sounds like it may be an unwise decision to do so.

[Taco280AI]

Go kill those coyotes

[ljsommer]

Go kill those coyotes

Is that it though? A lot of posts I read on here seem to suggest we've over hunted this subspecies in particular areas.

[MADMAX]

no more doe tags would help, and I think we also need to replant the forest areas with bitterbrush
dont know if that could be done but there still a lot of country up there

[boneaddict]

You are going to hear that the Cougar population is just right and there is no mention of Bear and that wolves are having no impact.   Id suggest that it be recognized that the cat population is busting at the seams, Spring bear tags could be issued and just recognize wolves are eating deer would be a step in the right direction. 
You will hear its due to range loss due to wildfires, and that will continue as the Methow burns up, but there has been and still is a probablem where there was plenty of sustainable range.   Just recognizing that maybe the antlerless tags and late tags should be dialed back for a couple years would help. 
It would be lovely if the department recognized that the herd numbers were actually as low as they are, but that might be admitting they made a mistake somewhere along the line......  it would go a long ways to help it recover though.     

[Dick in the Dirt]

Check this out. Herd is only down a bit, got to keep selling tags.
http://methowvalleynews.com/2018/12/26/wdfw-deer-survey-shows-methow-population-down-a-bit/

[Igor]

While it's true that much of the browse and winter range in the Methow has burned, there are huge areas that have not been touched.  We hunt in the Methow, and a couple of our hunting spots have not been burned for many years, and are covered with bitter brush and other browse.  We used to see lots of deer and tons of sign in those areas every time we hunted them.  Now, there are virtually no deer and no sign that they have even been there.  So, while the WDFW likes to blame low deer numbers on lack of range and the fires, our conclusions are that there are just not that many mule deer in the areas where there used to be a lot of deer.

[Skyvalhunter]

Due to predators, over hunting, lack of winter habitat? I think you will find that most GMU's are way down. Top deer area's like the Methow, Entiat, Perrygin, Mission are all way down as far as population. The Methow gets The spotlite because it was the best area with the largest mule deer population. The WDFW just doesn't want to admit the severity. I am sure predators are one of the top contributors. I have even found in my area that the Blacktail population isn't even a shadow of what it once was. But that's just my observation.

[idahohuntr]

Has hunter harvest declined significantly in the Methow units over the last 5, 10, 15 years?

[fireweed]

The low numbers are sad.   
That WDFW plan that shot all those does after the fires is being felt long term. 
Since nothing will be done for 4-legged predators the focus will be on us.  No doe tags.  Shorter seasons. 
There's plenty of habitat.

[bigmacc]

I just got back from a week and a half in the Methow, spending most of my time between Twisp and Mazama.  Wow.  It's a wasteland for mulies.  While I didn't spend time specifically looking for deer, I skied a lot and drove many roads through prime winter range.  They just aren't there.  The mule deer herd is a small fraction of what it was even five years ago. 

The whitetails seem to be doing OK, although I did find a number of predator kills.   It takes less than 48 hours to convert a carcass to a red blotch in the snow. 

I did see a couple of moose at the Loup.  That was cool.   

Very sad but its what a lot of us have been seeing for years, and I would bet good money there are a lot more red blotches in the snow that you don't see(we found over 20 kills just this last hunting season over a 9 day period), and more and more are happening every year. All those cats, yotes, bears and wolves have to eat and their populations are growing every year, soon they will die off or move though and unfortunately it will be because the deer are all but gone.

[bearpaw]

Go kill those coyotes

Is that it though? A lot of posts I read on here seem to suggest we've over hunted this subspecies in particular areas.

I think coyotes are a bigger factor than most people realize, they are extremely effective at killing young fawns every summer and are hard on adult deer during winters with deep snow conditions. I know a ranch owner in another state who got F&G permission to cull coyotes two years ago on a 20,000 acre ranch, in 5 or 6 days of helicopter control 111 coyotes were removed. I spent time on that ranch this winter and there are already some coyotes running around, but what I really noticed is that the deer numbers seemed to have doubled or tripled in only two years and it seemed like almost every doe had one or two fawns with them this winter. There are a few does with three surviving fawns.

[trophyhunt]

Sorry state of affairs, this day and age we should have figured out exactly how to have great deer/elk management.  Having a Wdfw that is pro predator makes a huge negative impact.  With 14 points for deer, my buddies are passing on those normal big mule deer permits.  Sad deal