the Methow is even worse off than I thought

[Alan K]

I don't see the initiatives being an excuse for them. It was obvious that the harvest of bear and cougar would tank without baiting/hounds, so you would have thought the seasons would have been increased, or even made year around to account for it.

I think if they were truely trying to maintain healthy ungulate populations they would have made immediate changes to seasons and bag limits to replace the lost baiting and hound harvest. Or at least as much of it as possible.  

Predator harvest is so pathetic I don't see any reason there couldn't be a year around boot season and still not meet historical harvest.

Either WDFW is out to protect predators as bearpaw says, or completely inept at game management.  I hope the latter because at least someone with half a brain might get hired and turn things around.  A covert plot to replace hunting in this state with natural predators sounds far fetch'd on it's face but when you look at the actions (or lack thereof) it's pretty easy to become suspicious...

[Bob33]

I don't see the initiatives being an excuse for them. It was obvious that the harvest of bear and cougar would tank without baiting/hounds, so you would have thought the seasons would have been increased, or even made year around to account for it.

I think if they were truely trying to maintain healthy ungulate populations they would have made immediate changes to seasons and bag limits to replace the lost baiting and hound harvest. Or at least as much of it as possible.  

Predator harvest is so pathetic I don't see any reason there couldn't be a year around boot season and still not meet historical harvest.

Either WDFW is out to protect predators as bearpaw says, or completely inept at game management.  I hope the latter because at least someone with half a brain might get hired and turn things around.  A covert plot to replace hunting in this state with natural predators sounds far fetch'd on it's face but when you look at the actions (or lack thereof) it's pretty easy to become suspicious...

They did.

After the initiative passed the Department of Fish and Wildlife increased the number and reduced the cost of cougar hunting tags, increased the bag limit, and extended the duration of the hunting season in the years following.

[Alan K]

If that's the case I guess I'm confused as to why we are where we are today with the limited seasons, a single cat bag limit, quotas etc.

At some point they reversed course and placed the additional protections on them. Based on what?  Obviously not populations, that's readily apparent with the sightings that have skyrocketed. 

I hope wholeheartedly that WDFW has our best interests in mind, but nothing they do with respect to predators illustrates that.

[huntnfmly]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

[Bob33]

Politics play a role as well.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2015/oct/20/gov-inslee-nixes-cougar-hunting-quota-increases-overrules-wildlife-panel/

[Alan K]

However, George says, a "12-14 percent harvest rate is a worthless measure (for indicating sustainable cougar numbers) when we have no idea what the population is. It's an estimate at best. The whole thing is a bad joke."

There-in lies the problem. We have had relatively stable annual harvests averaging around 200 per year state wide for the last 20 years, but encounters and sightings have been climbing and climbing and climbing.  The use of trail cameras has been widespread for 10-15 years now and the continually increasing photos further illustrate it. They don't publish any numbers from the days of running dogs, but harvest was certainly considerably greater and they didn't go extinct or even close to it then...  What does that tell us about these quotas they've set?

None of this is directed at you personally Bob33, more of a venting frustration of WDFW's failure to control things.  They NEVER have any spine when faced with this political BS. They could put out a presser eviscerating Inslee on how the SCIENCE shows a need for increased harvest, and it's leading to devastation of our ungulate herds. They never do that though, and THAT is really why sports men and women believe WDFW is all for the predator explosions.

[bearpaw]

Just going to inject a little logic here...WDFW are not anti-hunters and declines are not all their fault.  Statewide initiatives and politics, human population growth, and habitat degradation/loss are a number of things outside their control that are major contributors to mule deer and other game species declines in this state.

Carry on.

 

WDFW is being run to protect predators! That is their main goal!

In eastern states with high human populations and tremendous development, where there are no cougar and no wolves, you can shoot multiple deer per season, one deer a day in one state! The states where elk are being reintroduced they are flourishing!

Apples and oranges bearpaw...not even close comparisons.  Nice try though. 

WDFWs main goal seems to be keeping their bloated bureaucracy afloat.  However, its unreasonable to talk about methow mule deer declines without acknowledging several other major factors outside their control.

There are more mule deer living in the towns in the Methow than anywhere. Everyone who has actually been there know that! The problem is predators!

[bearpaw]

Politics play a role as well.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2015/oct/20/gov-inslee-nixes-cougar-hunting-quota-increases-overrules-wildlife-panel/

That is definitely a serious issue, I'm not sure the governor will allow much predator hunting.

[huntnfmly]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?

[Twispriver]

I've hunted the Methow for better than 30 years and have owned property there since 91. While not a full-time resident there I do spend a lot of time in the valley and while predators are a problem the thing that doesn't get much mention is domestic dogs. The Methow Valley is the home of the free range dog. Folks that have no rural life experience come over and buy a two acre or five acre lot and the first thing they do is get themselves a 20 acre dog and send him out to go for a "run" every morning. In the winter, in fawning season it takes a toll on the deer. It's not the biggest thing but it's another nail in the coffin for this herd.

[idaho guy]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?

That is exactly what’s happening in North Idaho. Like downtown cour d Alene fish and game treed one this summer. I get calls all the time of people seeing cougar on their property close to town.

[idaho guy]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?



The wolves are chasing the deer and elk into town and the cats are following the game. I don’t think they are specifically moving lions but there is elk in around town in places they never were before wolves

That is exactly what’s happening in North Idaho. Like downtown cour d Alene fish and game treed one this summer. I get calls all the time of people seeing cougar on their property close to town.

[huntnfmly]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?



The wolves are chasing the deer and elk into town and the cats are following the game. I don’t think they are specifically moving lions but there is elk in around town in places they never were before wolves

That is exactly what’s happening in North Idaho. Like downtown cour d Alene fish and game treed one this summer. I get calls all the time of people seeing cougar on their property close to town.

Thank you I appreciate it

[nwwanderer]

I am hearing reports of cougar/livestock issues around Mansfield, seems likely that movement has occured from the north and east.  Any word from WDFW?

[wolfbait]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?



The wolves are chasing the deer and elk into town and the cats are following the game. I don’t think they are specifically moving lions but there is elk in around town in places they never were before wolves

That is exactly what’s happening in North Idaho. Like downtown cour d Alene fish and game treed one this summer. I get calls all the time of people seeing cougar on their property close to town.

 

A few years ago a friend of mine got six different cougars on one trail cam at a stock tank in small drainage a few miles outside of Twisp. Before wolves this drainage always had deer in it year around, now wolves are seen in the area on a regular basis year around.

As time goes on and WDFW refuse to address the predator problems more human/livestock incidences will occur, I wonder what kind of pressure it will take for WDFW to respond? To what extent will they go to cover up the predation impacts?