the Methow is even worse off than I thought

[Skyvalhunter]

Interesting

[boneaddict]

did it feel like to you that they seemed to be more interested in whitetail than mule deer?  Not that Im not interested in whitetail but....

[Skyvalhunter]

It did to me and the reason I believe that is so is because the whitetail are more localized to where people inhabit. Where as the mule deer are more prevalent to high country(in spring, summer, fall), or away from valley's for the most part. Which for the most part is where the predators hang out and have more of an impact on the mule deer than the whitetail. So when this happens its easier for the WDFW to say there is a stable deer population be it whitetail. So why the WDFW doesn't just say hunt whitetail because the mule deer population is hurting. Reason is they can't control the predator population!!!

[boneaddict]

I think thats worth more than two cents.   

[wolfbait]

It did to me and the reason I believe that is so is because the whitetail are more localized to where people inhabit. Where as the mule deer are more prevalent to high country(in spring, summer, fall), or away from valley's for the most part. Which for the most part is where the predators hang out and have more of an impact on the mule deer than the whitetail. So when this happens its easier for the WDFW to say there is a stable deer population be it whitetail. So why the WDFW doesn't just say hunt whitetail because the mule deer population is hurting. Reason is they can't control the predator population!!!

 

[bigmacc]

It did to me and the reason I believe that is so is because the whitetail are more localized to where people inhabit. Where as the mule deer are more prevalent to high country(in spring, summer, fall), or away from valley's for the most part. Which for the most part is where the predators hang out and have more of an impact on the mule deer than the whitetail. So when this happens its easier for the WDFW to say there is a stable deer population be it whitetail. So why the WDFW doesn't just say hunt whitetail because the mule deer population is hurting. Reason is they can't control the predator population!!!

 , I agree with you Sky, If I may add also that with the exploding predator numbers of bear and cougar along with increasing numbers of wolves, the Mule deer herd is pretty much being pursued year round in the Methow by these predators now days, they are hitting them in the high country during the times you said and then are following them down during migration, they need to face this one fact and stop trying to spin the numbers and circumstances, NOT CONTROLLING PREDATORS in the Methow Valley over the last 20 years has resulted in at least this one thing, it has played a huge role in decimating what was once the largest migrating herd in the country, plain and simple!

[buckfvr]

Unfortunately, WDFW responds to its political constituency.  The 4% of Washingtonians that hunt and want fewer predators are dwarfed by the number of Seattle metro area residents that love the idea of having more wolves, mountain lions and bears, even though they will probably never visit the areas those animals live.  In the long run, hunters in this state are f*%#ed.

Nothing but fact. True, every word of it.

[OutHouse]

Twenty years ago when I was a kid it was rare to see any whitetail in upper valley heading up to Mazama (my experience maybe not for others). There were plenty of mule deer and I regularly saw decent bucks on the valley floor and lower hillsides. The last five seasons I've seen mostly whitetail. I learned from an old timer who lived in Mazama until recently that there was a guy named Rudy who used hounds (1980s and before I think) to hunt cougar and bear. He talked about seeing herds of mules in Mazama. Then at some point I think in the 1970s the north cascades highway was put in and things started to dwindle from there. This same fellow had a nice 30 inch wide mule deer rack that was shot near the valley floor sometime before the highway came. He said those were all over the place. I feel hesitant to take a mule deer so the last three deer I have gotten were whitetails and I'm happy with that. Spike whitetail was absolutely delicious.

[Wunderlich33]

Smoke and mirrors by WDFW again... Wish they would just come out and say that are mule deer herds are in bad shape.

 

[bigmacc]

Twenty years ago when I was a kid it was rare to see any whitetail in upper valley heading up to Mazama (my experience maybe not for others). There were plenty of mule deer and I regularly saw decent bucks on the valley floor and lower hillsides. The last five seasons I've seen mostly whitetail. I learned from an old timer who lived in Mazama until recently that there was a guy named Rudy who used hounds (1980s and before I think) to hunt cougar and bear. He talked about seeing herds of mules in Mazama. Then at some point I think in the 1970s the north cascades highway was put in and things started to dwindle from there. This same fellow had a nice 30 inch wide mule deer rack that was shot near the valley floor sometime before the highway came. He said those were all over the place. I feel hesitant to take a mule deer so the last three deer I have gotten were whitetails and I'm happy with that. Spike whitetail was absolutely delicious.

You are correct, I have told many, many stories on here about the demise of this herd, personal stories and pictures of my family dating back to 1917. IMO the (at least concerning the chipping away at the herd)opening of the pass was the beginning of the problems, like I have said many times, in the "pre pass" days hardly anyone in the state even knew where to find the Methow Valley on a map let alone even hearing of Twisp or Winthrop. The Dept. of Game switching to the WDFW was the next big issue then the loss of hound hunting along with the "attitude" of the WDFW concerning predators all have contributed to the demise. Yes Mother Nature has reared up from time to time but she has done that from the beginning of time, at least in my times when she has, the Dept of Game seemed to manage the herd back into shape within a few years, along with predators being kept in check and this herd being put on a pedestal by the Dept., it thrived and grew. IMO, this herd could be saved, it would take someone to "manage" it again, even with the pass being here, fires, drought, predators etc, in a nutshell, this herd is suffering because its not being managed with the herds best interest as the priority anymore. Like I've said 100 times, the Dept. of Game took care of our game herds, the WDFW has way to many other irons in the fire and our herds, including the once mighty Methow herd is way down the list of priorities now days....

[bigmacc]

Unfortunately, WDFW responds to its political constituency.  The 4% of Washingtonians that hunt and want fewer predators are dwarfed by the number of Seattle metro area residents that love the idea of having more wolves, mountain lions and bears, even though they will probably never visit the areas those animals live.  In the long run, hunters in this state are f*%#ed.

You know the more I think about it and really step back and look at the series of events that have taken place in the last 20-25 years statements like this become clearer and clearer, statements that some make that includes "agendas" to end hunting in this state also become more and more believable. Maybe it becomes even more clearer for those of us that actually were around to see what this state actually had to offer. I remember as a kid spending a couple weeks over at Camp Grisdale(during its hay day as a logging camp, grandpa on my moms side was an equipment operator for Simpson)) over on the OP during elk season, word would travel through town that another big Rosie was on its way, we would walk around on the dirt roads of Grisdale and pop into garages around town that had bunches of people gathered to see huge bodied and dark horned elk hanging in the rafters, some 600lbs and more, I remember in just 1 weekend over 15 big elk coming into town and getting hung in the garages of the loggers, it was amazing the number of big elk over there, predators were kept in check and the herd was managed well. As far as the Methow herd went, my family used to have friends come in from Alaska, Oregon, Wyoming and even Idaho to hunt Mule deer in the valley. It was the 20,s, 30,s, 40,s 50,s and into the early 70,s that I have seen family pictures and have seen in person some huge bucks(many well over 30 inches) that used to come out of the Methow on a regular basis, back in the day it was a well kept secret that this valley offered some big bodied heavy horned deer. We have never been big on the "scores" of deer, and I don't frown upon those that do but I can tell you this, we have put a tape on deer many times just to see how wide it was. I can tell you this as the truth that many were over 30". I posted many pictures on here years ago and pulled them off after someone said people were copying them, I won't post anymore of my family hunting pictures. I have told some folks on here about huge bucks that I used to see and have killed(in the 28-30" range). For a lack of better words, they were plentiful enough that 4-5 were killed every year by my familys camp and friends of my family(20-30 people in our camp, close to 100 including friends camps). It was called "the little Bellingham camp" because thats where my great grandparents and the rest were originally from. It was a 2 day trip to get there in the early days, my dad said a caravan of cars and trucks pulling utility trailers that was 30-40 rigs strong would start in Bellingham, travel on mostly back roads(no I-5 back then) and they would make it over Stevens Pass the first day(it was gravel then) and spend the night at a friends farm in Cashmere then get up the next day and finish the trip to the valley, it was a full 2 day trek to get to the camp from Bellingham. Some of the group would spend a month there, hunting, hiking, fishing and photographing when the season ended, my dad told stories of seeing over 5,000 deer during the month with migrations of 200-600 deer in a bunch pouring through some of the migration routes. A lot of the valley was private back then, my great grandparents were good friends with many including the Sullivan family(Sullivans Pond), yep a lot of that was private back in the day and my family and their friends pretty much had it all to themselves. I remember my dad telling me stories of my family hunting Studhorse, it was all private and one of my great grandpas brothers became friends with the folks that owned it(I do not recall the familys name), had it to themselves for years. Most of the old-timers of the camp were gone years ago but to this day we still find some of the old pieces of camping equipment and parts of stoves etc. that they would bury each year so they wouldn't have to load and haul it. I also remember as a kid going into my great grandpas garage and seeing hundreds of racks hanging from the rafters, all killed by them, my grandparents, aunts and uncles and my mom and dad and everyone of them came out of the Methow Valley, they finally took over the garage to the point they gave them away to the Boy Scouts and others to make things out of(early 1960,s). I also remember my dad driving me around the valley to see 1 yard wide plus bucks hanging in shops and carports of some of the locals we knew. Yes I know its not the "good ole days" anymore but I think its important to have folks around to tell of times that our herds WERE managed for the sportsmen and women of this state. Point being, yes there was a time that the Methow had plenty of trophy deer around, deer that would rival and even surpass what a lot of folks are spending a lot of money to get chances at out of state nowadays. They were here in our own back yard, folks didn't need to go out of state, they were here folks and they were in Chelan units too, we had friends that hunted the 25 mile area and it was always a friendly contest to see which camp could shoot the most bucks and the biggest, 25 mile vs the Methow, my dad told a story and I seen pictures of our camp going 26 for 26 with 2 bucks that taped over 30"(one at 31 and one at 33) the 25 mile camp of my grandparents friend went 22 for 30 but they had 3 big bucks over 30" including one that was a big heavy 5 by 6 that went 36". Once again, it was the Dept of Game back then and this state was a lot different, politics were different and things were looked at differently. There were lots of deer in the Methow folks and they were quality, like I said that herd would rival any other state, it was "managed" for quantity AND quality, there are some of us that were there, we witnessed it and seen it with our own eyes, we looked through thousands of pictures and heard thousands of stories and thats why for some of us it especially hurts to see what has become of this once thriving, healthy and proud herd, a real shame. To say it is a mere shadow of what it once was is a gross overstatement, its not even close folks, it really is criminal what has happened to this herd, a small group of us still tromp around over there and I can tell you it is getting worse every year, the causes are many but most fall under the umbrella of "management" or lack of, with the number one issue affecting this herd being growing predator numbers that are being left unchecked, 20 or so years to decimate this herd, its not that long really but thats all it took, its just very sad ..I know I will probably catch flack for the whole "30 inch buck thing" but thats ok, like I said I had pictures on here at one time with a few and tell this as gods truth so say what you will, its ok.....

[woodswalker]

Unfortunately, WDFW responds to its political constituency.  The 4% of Washingtonians that hunt and want fewer predators are dwarfed by the number of Seattle metro area residents that love the idea of having more wolves, mountain lions and bears, even though they will probably never visit the areas those animals live.  In the long run, hunters in this state are f*%#ed.

You know the more I think about it and really step back and look at the series of events that have taken place in the last 20-25 years statements like this become clearer and clearer, statements that some make that includes "agendas" to end hunting in this state also become more and more believable. Maybe it becomes even more clearer for those of us that actually were around to see what this state actually had to offer. I remember as a kid spending a couple weeks over at Camp Grisdale(during its hay day as a logging camp) over on the OP during elk season, word would travel through town that another big Rosie was on its way, we would walk around on the dirt roads of Grisdale and pop into garages around town that had bunches of people gathered to see huge bodied and dark horned elk hanging in the rafters, some 600lbs and more, I remember in just 1 weekend over 15 big elk coming into town and getting hung in the garages of the loggers, it was amazing the number of big elk over there, predators were kept in check and the herd was managed well. As far as the Methow herd went, my family used to have friends come in from Alaska, Oregon, Wyoming and even Idaho to hunt Mule deer in the valley. It was the 20,s, 30,s, 40,s 50,s and into the early 70,s that I have seen family pictures and have seen in person some huge bucks(many well over 30 inches) that used to come out of the Methow on a regular basis, back in the day it was a well kept secret that this valley offered some big bodied heavy horned deer. We have never been big on the "scores" of deer, and I don't frown upon those that do but I can tell you this, we have put a tape on deer many times just to see how wide it was. I can tell you this as the truth that many were over 30". I posted many pictures on here years ago and pulled them off after someone said people were copying them, I won't post anymore of my family hunting pictures. I have told some folks on here about huge bucks that I used to see and have killed(in the 28-30" range). For a lack of better words, they were plentiful enough that we would kill 4-5 every year(20 people in camp). I remember as a kid going into my great grandpas garage and seeing hundreds of racks hanging from the rafters, all killed by them, my grandparents, aunts and uncles and my mom and dad, they finally took over the garage to the point they gave them away to the Boy Scouts and others to make things out of(early 1960,s). I also remember my dad driving me around the valley to see 1 yard wide plus bucks hanging in shops and carports of some of the locals we knew. Yes I know its not the "good ole days" anymore but I think its important to have folks around to tell of times that our herds WERE managed for the sportsmen and women of this state. Point being, yes there was a time that the Methow had plenty of trophy deer around, deer that would rival and even surpass what a lot of folks are spending a lot of money to get chances at out of state nowadays. They were here in our own back yard, folks didn't need to go out of state, they were here folks and they were in Chelan units too, we had friends that hunted the 25 mile area and it was always a friendly contest to see which camp could shoot the most bucks and the biggest, 25 mile vs the Methow, my dad told a story and I seen pictures of our camp going 26 for 26 with 2 bucks that taped over 30"(one at 31 and one at 33) the 25 mile camp of my grandparents friend went 22 for 30 but they had 3 big bucks over 30" including one that was a big heavy 5 by 6 that went 36". Once again, it was the Dept of Game back then and this state was a lot different, politics were different and things were looked at differently. There were lots of deer in the Methow folks and they were quality, like I said that herd would rival any other state, it was "managed" for quantity AND quality, there are some of us that were there, we witnessed it and seen it with our own eyes, we looked through thousands of pictures and heard thousands of stories and thats why for some of us it especially hurts to see what has become of this once thriving, healthy and proud herd, a real shame...I know I will probably catch flack for the whole "30 inch buck thing" but thats ok, like I said I had pictures on here at one time with a few and tell this as gods truth so say what you will, its ok.

I have my grandfather's and great grandfather's  photos of camps full of (now) Monster deer from the Methow.  I can recall in the early 1990s we still went 80% in camp but the deer were smaller antlered but it was not uncommon to have most of camp tagged out by the end of the first week.

[Ironhead]

It's almost like the Democrats are running the WDFW! HaHa!

[Axle]

It's almost like the Democrats are running the WDFW! HaHa!

Almost?

[bigmacc]

 

To those interested, I added more thoughts and observations to my above post. Its a very passionate topic for me I'm afraid, especially with such a long family history there with a lot of fond memories and stories told to me over many, many years.