Environmentalists Suing to Cut Salmon Fishing to Save Whales

[7mmfan]

Sure, I would agree with that. But if these guys want to save the orcas and they’re dead set on wild fish only, then we need to use whatever tools available to increase wild fish numbers. Broodstock programs have been shown to be highly effective in Oregon and Idaho, and should be on the radar.

Maybe we pick rivers that have the largest returns of wild fish currently and start there. That way a significant number of smolt could be released the first to around. In the mean time, rivers with fewer wild fish could begin making the transition and build up to the needed return.

[WSU]

There's probably a number of ways to skin the cat.  One way would be to admit defeat in places where we have no reasonable chance at bring wild fish back and use them to pump out billions of fish.  Your brood stock idea is another possibility.  All if it will probably need some changes made at the legislative level. 

But, it's hard to argue that the most immediate and effective way to get more kings eaten by killer whales is to stop killing a million or so of them a year.  Fish we release now won't be back for 5 years.  That's 5 years where the only answer appears to be harvest.

[Stein]

There's probably a number of ways to skin the cat.  One way would be to admit defeat in places where we have no reasonable chance at bring wild fish back and use them to pump out billions of fish.  Your brood stock idea is another possibility.  All if it will probably need some changes made at the legislative level. 

But, it's hard to argue that the most immediate and effective way to get more kings eaten by killer whales is to stop killing a million or so of them a year.  Fish we release now won't be back for 5 years.  That's 5 years where the only answer appears to be harvest.

Or quickly trim down the pinniped population back to where it should be.  My guess is that there are several tribes that would be more than willing to help out if given the green light.  WA's own congresspeople even are in support of it, but the environmental groups won't be happy and someone would have to stand up to them.

The problem is that there are a bunch of rivers with native chinook on the brink.  They aren't recovering even with all the extra attention and it's really messing up a bunch of things - everything from orcas to Lake WA sockeye to sportfishing throughout the area.  A huge price is being paid for no progress, simply hoping they don't go extinct.

The groups suing have an answer and it involves blowing up dams, massive watershed projects, no fishing, no hatcheries, carbon taxes and a bunch of other fun stuff.  They can't get that though so here we sit at a stale mate.

[WSU]

Much what pinnipeds eat are juvenile fish.  So even that (which I support, I'll buy the bullets) won't help for 4 or 5 years.

[gaddy]

Along with the Pinnipeds, how about the nets. I know it will take a few cycles but it seems that every year would generate more and more if they were allowed to spawn. A 100,000 spawning this year would generate more spawning the next and so on if the nets weren't there. 

[Smokeploe]

Try this on for size
Indians train orcas to eat seals
Fish and game train orcas to remove nets

[singleshot12]

Along with the Pinnipeds, how about the nets. I know it will take a few cycles but it seems that every year would generate more and more if they were allowed to spawn. A 100,000 spawning this year would generate more spawning the next and so on if the nets weren't there. 

Shhhh! it's not PC anymore to blame nets. Of coarse nets are responsible for wiping out whole runs of native salmon/steelhead strains.

[Taco280AI]

One potential problem is that it may take a few spawning cycles to build up enough fish.  Even if it is two cycles, you are looking at a decade.

Better get started then.

And drastically reduce sea lion populations.

Get rid of the nets on the rivers.

[Stein]

Try this on for size
Indians train orcas to eat seals
Fish and game train orcas to remove nets

The transient orcas eat seals all the time, they get them trapped in Hood Canal sometimes and crush them.  The resident orcas don't for the most part.

[fishngamereaper]

Try this on for size
Indians train orcas to eat seals
Fish and game train orcas to remove nets

The transient orcas eat seals all the time, they get them trapped in Hood Canal sometimes and crush them.  The resident orcas don't for the most part.

How do we really know the resident orca's don't...because the state says so. Who do we believe anymore. I find it difficult to wrap my head around the idea that resident Orca's have developed a selective taste for Chinook salmon. If an Orca is hungry and see's a Coho, Pink or Chum its says to itself, no thanks I want a Chinook... Or the whole Chinook narrative just a politically driven ploy to attempt to shutdown salmon fishing on the west coast. I think more influences are at play than food resources. How about pollution, harassment by whale watching boats (I know this is addressed in the suit), what about nuke subs running in and out, how about the dozens of cruise ships and container ships that come and go daily...….anyone been under water when those things go by...holy cow the propulsion echo is crazy. Same thing with ferries.


I guess I'm just venting by but I don't buy into the selective chinook food source narrative.

[Crunchy]

I agree that it is likely bs that these orcas only eat chinook over other species of salmon.  If the resident orcas were eating seals we (fisherman) would see it.  The seal numbers are through the roof in the areas I fish.  That would indicate that the orcas are not eating them or they would be more scarce.  Some days you cannot get a fish to the boat without a seal on its tail. 

[Stein]

When a group of orcas starts a crunch and munch on a pod of seals, it's very obvious - total bloodbath.  I agree that with all the fishermen in Puget Sound and our interactions with both orcas and seals that there would be tons of stories if they munched them on any sort of regular basis.

Also, with the huge numbers of seals, the orcas wouldn't be starving if they were a food source.

It is somewhat strange that the resident orcas spend most of their time around here but don't utilize an abundant and year-round food source that the transient orcas do.

Anyway, it isn't like science is a factor in these decisions anyway.

[Alchase]

This is from the https://www.killer-whale.org/what-do-killer-whales-eat/

However, the feeding habits of the different populations of orcas are well known. Resident killer whales, inhabiting eastern North Pacific waters,  feed primarily on salmon, particularly chinook salmon or king salmon (Oncorhynchus tshawytscha). By contrast, transient orcas in the same region prefer marine mammals such as harbor seals (Phoca vitulina), elephant seals (Mirounga Genre), porpoises (Phocoenidae family), sea lions (subfamily Otariinae), minke whales (Balaenoptera acutorostrata and Balaenoptera bonaerensis) and others.

Across the world, in Norwegian waters, they go after schools of fish and manifest preference for herring (Clupea Genre). New Zealand waters orcas prefer rays and sharks (Both Elasmobranchii Subclass) and those living in Antarctic feed on seals (Family Phocidae), minke whales and several species of fish such as the Antarctic toothfish (Dissostichus mawsoni).

This one is from WIKI

"Fish-eating killer whales prey on around 30 species of fish. Some populations in the Norwegian and Greenland sea specialize in herring and follow that fish's autumnal migration to the Norwegian coast. Salmon account for 96% of northeast Pacific residents' diet, including 65% of large, fatty Chinook.[95] Chum salmon are also eaten, but smaller sockeye and pink salmon are not a significant food item.[96] Depletion of specific prey species in an area is, therefore, cause for concern for local populations, despite the high diversity of prey. On average, a killer whale eats 227 kilograms (500 lb) each day.[97] While salmon are usually hunted by an individual whale or a small group, herring are often caught using carousel feeding: the killer whales force the herring into a tight ball by releasing bursts of bubbles or flashing their white undersides. They then slap the ball with their tail flukes, stunning or killing up to 15 fish at a time, then eating them one by one. Carousel feeding has only been documented in the Norwegian killer whale population, as well as some oceanic dolphin species.[98] "

and

"Northeast Pacific resident groups tend to be much more vocal than transient groups in the same waters.[137] Residents feed primarily on Chinook and chum salmon, species that are insensitive to killer whale calls (inferred from the audio-gram of Atlantic salmon). In contrast, the marine mammal prey of transients hear well underwater at the frequencies used in killer whale calls. As such, transients are typically silent, probably to avoid alerting their mammalian prey"

Males will change Pods to mate, L87 (i think) has been with K pod for 10 years.

This one is from the center of Whale research

"Their focused distribution in the summer time is due to large numbers of Pacific Northwest salmon returning to the Fraser River in British Columbia. In recent years, during the autumn months, the Southern Residents have shifted their travel patterns southward, following salmon heading to rivers draining into Greater Puget Sound. During the winter months, however, the whales spend increasing amounts of their time in the outer coastal waters; and, in recent years, some members of the Southern Resident community, K and L pods, have been observed as far south as Monterey, California, and as far north as the Haida Gwaii (formerly Queen Charlotte Islands), British Columbia. On several occasions, all three Southern Resident community pods have been observed returning in late spring to the inland waters of the Salish Sea by way of Johnstone Strait at the north end of Vancouver Island."

In 1999, Hundreds of people my family included, witnessed the L Pod come into Newport Bay, OR. and slaughter a bunch of sea lions that were herded up in the middle of the bay. The whales dove under the whole group of sea lions and exploded up throwing them everywhere. Sea lions were climbing on any boat or dock to get out of the water. The bay was red with blood in the middle.

So they know the "fish eating whales" do eat sea mammals when the urge is on them.

[Whitpirate]

It's a tricky pickle for sure.  We have ESA listed whales and ESA listed Chinook.  We can pump out Chinook to maybe feed the whales (I say maybe since it won't happen for 4 or 5 years if we released the fish now, which we can't, because we don't have them to release).  Current science and policy says doing so will harm the ESA listed Chinook, so you have to harm one ESA listed species to help another.  There's no easy path forward that I can see.

The Mountain Caribou herd says adapt or die.... didn't seem to matter to the wolf lovers.

[CAMPMEAT]

Why does the left, extremist envirofreaks always win at everything the sue over ?