Advice for anyone looking for a guide in the Goat Rocks Wilderness?

[kselkhunter]

I think we're still missing quite a bit of information to really be able to comment. The Op didn't actually post their story.  Somebody claiming to know the Op's story posted some information third hand.   Some of which is of questionable believability (and potentially libel).  The guide responded to that third hand account with details on their version of the story. 


Stuff happens.  Having worked cattle for many years earlier in my life, rounding up cows out of forested areas is a pain in the arse.  My horse stepped on yellow jacket nests in that time, and that experience sucks.  I imagine it's even worse with a set of mules tied behind going berserk.  I was a very experienced mountain rider during my time.  The thought of a novice on a horse with a rifle in their hand (instead of a scabbard) dealing with a yellow jacket nest incident.....yikes.


Always have a contract in place, and set expectations for camp and hunt parameters in advance with an outfitter/guide.  As well as expectations for the horses and how they will be used (ie just riding to camp on, or also hunting from during the trip).

   

[elkchaser54]

Who pays to be packed in on a horse and then says they are allergic.  People amaze me with stupidity some times. Its a shame that in today's world, businesses must deal with social media lies and posts as people always blame others for their own mistakes.  No hunting guide on national forest land can control animals and weather or magically make that big bull appear for you.  Probably should have worked out like it was a once in a lifetime tag you called it and been in better shape.  Not practicing safe firearm technique like properly storing a rifle is a sham of an outdoorsmen.   If I was with him on that horse string I would have been mad that hunter wasnt being safe with a rifle.  As coming home with my life is top priority on an backcountry adventure

[2MANY]

Did we skip jury selection?

[Karl Blanchard]

Did we skip jury selection?

duh! This is the internet sir

[elkchaser54]

Internet forum jury's are self selected! Just blast an opinion for no reason is the fun of it.

[jackelope]

Expand more?
OK.

IMHO expanding more should have been done by both parties long before they hit the woods.
Expectations should have been addressed, planned for, and met.
If one side didn't follow through with what was discussed then that is bad bad bad.

The hunter doesn't feel like his needs were even close to met.
I know nothing about the 2 party's agreement or details but based on the hunt location referenced above I can't say I blame the hunter for being disappointed with that part of their combined failure.
Obviously had a large bull been killed my guess is the location would have become irrelevant.

If a person spends enough miles in the saddle they will be involved in horse wrecks.
Not to mention, if you tie a string of mules together things can get western in a hurry.
A big ivory tipped six point bull rack strapped to the back of a mule trying to shed the load is a beautiful thing.
Usually the horse memories last longer than the smaller details of any trip especially for a dude.

This outcome should have been avoided.

It seems to me, and maybe to you, that mistakes were made on both ends of this transaction.  I’ve got relatively limited time on horses and I’ve been thrown because the horse walked into a puddle and didn’t like said puddle. Decided he liked me less on his back at that moment and ejected me. Trail horse with lots of trail miles.  Stuff happens on a horse. I never fully trust them to not lose their minds. Especially in the woods.

[idaho guy]

I can attest to the fact that any horse including some of the best will freak out if they get swarmed by bees, it's happened to me several times through the years when packing in warm weather. Anyone who doesn't know horses or might be afraid of horses would think that the horses are untrained rodeo horses because it gets pretty wild if the horses are getting stung bad, about all you can do is get the horses away from the bees as fast as possible.

  pretty common I have had it happen more than a few times on my own horses which I know and are super broke  . Not fun but in no way the fault of the guide or the horse   

[big wood]

In defense of the hunter, that i know personally, he is allergic to horses and after drawing an awesome tag wanted to hire someone to pack in a comfortable camp deep into the wilderness, possibly cook and pack his animal out. Other than that he would not need this outfitters service as he is totally capable on his own. I have been on numerous hikes with him as well as him hiking and me riding and him showing up at camp 5 minutes behind my horses with his own gear on his back, he refused my offer to pack his gear. He is no doubt in shape and the comment from the outfitter is completely false. He was ready

[2MANY]

I know the following will be thrown out by the judge as not relevant or admissible.

#1    I have been lied to by a outfitter in a state where you had to hire one.

#2    In many of these situations the trip of a lifetime for a hunter = not a repeat customer for outfitter.

[Harleysboss]

This is getting interesting with all the comments. I see that White Pass Outfitters is taking the blame as he posted a rebuttal. I see that a lot of "Jury" members are citing third party hearsay. Well Mr White Pass Outfitting,, were you actually on scene for any of this?  If you are an honest man ,I would expect your answer to be" NO I was not". So that makes his story of events third party as well.  I don't have any sort of ax to grind. People were asking for details and I asked for permission to post a very very watered down representation of the story told to me first hand by my next door neighbor (The Hunter). The big Lie here is that the hunter is upset about not getting an animal on this hunt. WRONG! He is upset about a horse back hunt in the Goat Rocks Wilderness that was anything but.  I have spoken to the OP and he assures me that he will post his version when he has time. IF only half of what he tells is true..I think it will shock most hunters and outfitters alike.  I call for a recess to this hunt forum trial until the key witness has time to respond. 

[Bushcraft]

This is getting interesting with all the comments. I see that White Pass Outfitters is taking the blame as he posted a rebuttal. I see that a lot of "Jury" members are citing third party hearsay. Well Mr White Pass Outfitting,, were you actually on scene for any of this?  If you are an honest man ,I would expect your answer to be" NO I was not". So that makes his story of events third party as well.  I don't have any sort of ax to grind. People were asking for details and I asked for permission to post a very very watered down representation of the story told to me first hand by my next door neighbor (The Hunter). The big Lie here is that the hunter is upset about not getting an animal on this hunt. WRONG! He is upset about a horse back hunt in the Goat Rocks Wilderness that was anything but.  I have spoken to the OP and he assures me that he will post his version when he has time. IF only half of what he tells is true..I think it will shock most hunters and outfitters alike.  I call for a recess to this hunt forum trial until the key witness has time to respond.

Sigh...how did I know this would evolve from a "PM me for a discrete one-sided recount of my side of the story" to "I'm going to air out the laundry". 

[emac]

This is getting interesting with all the comments. I see that White Pass Outfitters is taking the blame as he posted a rebuttal. I see that a lot of "Jury" members are citing third party hearsay. Well Mr White Pass Outfitting,, were you actually on scene for any of this?  If you are an honest man ,I would expect your answer to be" NO I was not". So that makes his story of events third party as well.  I don't have any sort of ax to grind. People were asking for details and I asked for permission to post a very very watered down representation of the story told to me first hand by my next door neighbor (The Hunter). The big Lie here is that the hunter is upset about not getting an animal on this hunt. WRONG! He is upset about a horse back hunt in the Goat Rocks Wilderness that was anything but.  I have spoken to the OP and he assures me that he will post his version when he has time. IF only half of what he tells is true..I think it will shock most hunters and outfitters alike.  I call for a recess to this hunt forum trial until the key witness has time to respond.

So were you there?  If you weren't doesn't that make what you are saying 3rd party.  Even if the owner wasn't there he got his part of the story from his guides, just like you got your story from your neighbor. How is there any difference.



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[Elkcollector82]

When did the goat rocks wilderness become a “once in a lifetime hunt”

[Rainier10]

Has anyone received a pm response yet from the OP?

[Mudman]

So a guy who is allergic to horses and can hike with horse trains got on a horse?  Pretty sure he has no knowledge/experience of horses.  He aint smart enough to put his gun in the "safe" place for riding and he holds Guide responsible for bees/horses reactions?  A self medicating guide at camp?  So.  His day is done, his business.  It seems if a person listened to guide and scabbared his rifle it would not have broke?  If he had some horse experience and 2 hands riding (not holding a rifle) he might not been hurt when tossed from horse as the shoulder injury suggest.  Either way it sucks, very bad luck and a bad trip when expectations where so high.  I would be but sore as well but I accept responsibilty for my decisions and don't try blame any source I can find but that's me.  WPO imop is a good outfit trying best to perform in a tough business.  Things aint always roses.  Aint NW Trek in the mnts.  Sheet happens people.