Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd

[Rainier10]

To add what little I can to this discussion, I think if the poaching problem was addressed, the perceived problem of over harvest  wouldn't even be a problem. I know for fact based on some matters I worked on (not hunting related, but where this issue arose) that there are several huge operations where elk and deer are poached, gutted, and the carcasses sold for anywhere from $60-$200 (mostly in Yakima County). The evidence for this was captured by informants talking directly with people involved while discussing other unlawful acts. On film, clear audio. Offers were even made and discussed. I believe if poaching was reigned in and punished properly, this wouldn't be an issue.

What we can control or try to control is non native poaching and I believe it is a huge issue.  I think we need to get our own house in order before we worry about what others are doing.  Work on them both at the same time if you want but I really don't think non native poaching is getting anywhere near the attention it deserves.

[Platensek-po]

  I used to know a group of dudes that loved to brag about poaching deer, elk and salmon. They all had multiple “strikes” with WDFW and continued to poach like crazy. Their favorite method was a crossbows from inside a vehicle. They liked to talk about how “closed waters are the best waters”. I think that a few of them lost the ability to purchase licenses but they could care less.

[Whitefoot]

I would like to see more roads gated.

That would require getting more keys to open those gates.   

[dvolmer]

There are 10,851 members of the Yakima tribe (check google if you don't believe me).  Lets say that 90% of them don't want to hunt and don't care about hunting.  Now your down to approximately 1085 that hunt.  Lets say conservatively that 75% of the hunters only hunt to sustain themselves for food for their families and only kill an average of two elk a year.  So that is 813 tribal members killing two elk each so right there is approximately 1600 elk killed.  The other 25% of the 10% so roughly 2.5% (272 tribal hunters) of the entire tribe are really hunting it hard for whatever they can get within the rules that are allowed to them.  out of the 272 hunters left lets say that 172 of them are just bad hunters and can only come up with killing 5 elk in 180 days of hunting.  That is another 860 elk killed.  Lets say 100 of them are good hunters that hit it hard.  I know that if I hunted the Yakima areas for 180 days and could use whatever weapon I chose and hunt the rut and so forth, that I easily could kill 100 elk in 180 days and most members on this forum could do the same.  If I had a jerky business that depended on it I could probably kill more than that!  That is 10,000 elk.  100 hunters is less than 1% of the tribe total.  Starting to catch on?  With the huge number of the tribe having only 25% native bloodline (that means that one of their four grandparents were native).  I'm 75% English and 25% German.  I don't recognize myself as being a German.

Are the numbers and figures above correct?  NO they are not.  The only correct number above is the original number of 10,851 tribal members total.  We will never know the totals because they have no reporting requirements and wont consider starting.  But some of the figures above are on the conservative side I do believe.  The total number of elk killed in the figures above is 12,460 per year.  Do I believe that the tribe kills that many elk a year?  NO!  Do I believe uncontrolled tribal hunting in the Yakima area is the number one cause of elk depletion.  ABSOLUTELY!!!!  Wolves, Bears, Cougars, and non-native poaching aren't even a close second place!! The only other big contributing factor is weather issues with winter kill and poor calf production and survival but even that isn't close to the number one reason.   Anyone else thinking otherwise needs to re-think their views in my opinion.

[jackelope]

There are 10,851 members of the Yakima tribe (check google if you don't believe me).  Lets say that 90% of them don't want to hunt and don't care about hunting.  Now your down to approximately 1085 that hunt.  Lets say conservatively that 75% of the hunters only hunt to sustain themselves for food for their families and only kill an average of two elk a year.  So that is 813 tribal members killing two elk each so right there is approximately 1600 elk killed.  The other 25% of the 10% so roughly 2.5% (272 tribal hunters) of the entire tribe are really hunting it hard for whatever they can get within the rules that are allowed to them.  out of the 272 hunters left lets say that 172 of them are just bad hunters and can only come up with killing 5 elk in 180 days of hunting.  That is another 860 elk killed.  Lets say 100 of them are good hunters that hit it hard.  I know that if I hunted the Yakima areas for 180 days and could use whatever weapon I chose and hunt the rut and so forth, that I easily could kill 100 elk in 180 days and most members on this forum could do the same.  If I had a jerky business that depended on it I could probably kill more than that!  That is 10,000 elk.  100 hunters is less than 1% of the tribe total.  Starting to catch on?

Are the numbers and figures above correct?  NO they are not.  The only correct number above is the original number of 10,851 tribal members total.  We will never know the totals because they have no reporting requirements and wont consider starting.  But some of the figures above are on the conservative side I do believe.  The total number of elk killed in the figures above is 12,460 per year.  Do I believe that the tribe kills that many elk a year?  NO!  Do I believe uncontrolled tribal hunting in the Yakima area is the number one cause of elk depletion.  ABSOLUTELY!!!!  Wolves, Bears, Cougars, and non-native poaching aren't even a close second place!! The only other big contributing factor is weather issues with winter kill and poor calf production and survival but even that isn't close to the number one reason.   Anyone else thinking otherwise needs to re-think their views in my opinion.

I'd be shocked if more than 25% of them killed 2 elk a year. I bet 25% of them don't kill one elk a year.

[dvolmer]

There are 10,851 members of the Yakima tribe (check google if you don't believe me).  Lets say that 90% of them don't want to hunt and don't care about hunting.  Now your down to approximately 1085 that hunt.  Lets say conservatively that 75% of the hunters only hunt to sustain themselves for food for their families and only kill an average of two elk a year.  So that is 813 tribal members killing two elk each so right there is approximately 1600 elk killed.  The other 25% of the 10% so roughly 2.5% (272 tribal hunters) of the entire tribe are really hunting it hard for whatever they can get within the rules that are allowed to them.  out of the 272 hunters left lets say that 172 of them are just bad hunters and can only come up with killing 5 elk in 180 days of hunting.  That is another 860 elk killed.  Lets say 100 of them are good hunters that hit it hard.  I know that if I hunted the Yakima areas for 180 days and could use whatever weapon I chose and hunt the rut and so forth, that I easily could kill 100 elk in 180 days and most members on this forum could do the same.  If I had a jerky business that depended on it I could probably kill more than that!  That is 10,000 elk.  100 hunters is less than 1% of the tribe total.  Starting to catch on?

Are the numbers and figures above correct?  NO they are not.  The only correct number above is the original number of 10,851 tribal members total.  We will never know the totals because they have no reporting requirements and wont consider starting.  But some of the figures above are on the conservative side I do believe.  The total number of elk killed in the figures above is 12,460 per year.  Do I believe that the tribe kills that many elk a year?  NO!  Do I believe uncontrolled tribal hunting in the Yakima area is the number one cause of elk depletion.  ABSOLUTELY!!!!  Wolves, Bears, Cougars, and non-native poaching aren't even a close second place!! The only other big contributing factor is weather issues with winter kill and poor calf production and survival but even that isn't close to the number one reason.   Anyone else thinking otherwise needs to re-think their views in my opinion.

I'd be shocked if more than 25% of them killed 2 elk a year. I bet 25% of them don't kill one elk a year.

We will never know will we???

[kentrek]

Theres only estimated to be 8200 animals in the herd.....how many tribal members are killing hundreds a year again ?

Maybe it's the increasing shed hunting during calving season...

[Stein]

I want to meet the guy that can pack out 100 elk in a season!

[h20hunter]

Do all types of hunters,  otc, disabled,  mh, etc tags and harvests affect the overall herd numbers.  Yes, they do and should be tallied and reported.

Do all types of tribal hunters, ceremonial,  subsistence,  etc. affect the overall herd numbers. Yes, they do and should be tallied and reported.

I don't believe that any one animal, regardless of our heritage,  belongs to any one or any one group of us. It is a shared resource and should be managed as the whole, not the separate groups.

[Curly]

https://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoors/troubling-decline-falling-elk-populations-bring-hunting-reductions/article_f8725d29-b19e-503d-af9a-0c1c18054831.html

Full article at the link above but two specific paragraphs in this that were the biggest takeaways for me are:

1.) "Local Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Jeff Bernatowicz said no studies have been done on area calves and researchers don’t know why their survival numbers are historically low. Until that trend reverses, hunters must pay the price with fewer permits available and shortened seasons for archers."

Why have no studies been done on this?

2.) "Bernatowicz noted hunters could also see negative effects from a pair of factors outside their control. Access to the Yakima Training Center will be limited this fall by heavy training activity, and unofficial reports from one tribe show total tribal harvest may be exceeding the number of new branched bulls in the herd, according to the wildlife department."

So the tribe is self reporting that they're literally killing off the bulls? Killing more bulls then are being recruited as calves each year. Wow. Also the Colockum herd has declined as well. They're currently at 4,133 elk up there and the WDFW's goal is 6,000.

I'm late to this discussion and I don't want to get into the tribal stuff, but the first issue about calf survival should be touched upon. Bernie would like a study done but isn't the most likely reason for low calf survival be due to predators? Cats, coyotes, and more recently wolves.....seems obvious that predators need to be reduced and I think Bernie probably knows that.

Let's say they (wdfw) comes up with money for a study and the study reveals what many already now (there are too many predators).  What would wdfw propose to do about it?

[Stein]

Study the predators of course along with storm water runoff.  Either that or form a task force.


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[dvolmer]

https://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoors/troubling-decline-falling-elk-populations-bring-hunting-reductions/article_f8725d29-b19e-503d-af9a-0c1c18054831.html

Full article at the link above but two specific paragraphs in this that were the biggest takeaways for me are:

1.) "Local Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Jeff Bernatowicz said no studies have been done on area calves and researchers don’t know why their survival numbers are historically low. Until that trend reverses, hunters must pay the price with fewer permits available and shortened seasons for archers."

Why have no studies been done on this?

2.) "Bernatowicz noted hunters could also see negative effects from a pair of factors outside their control. Access to the Yakima Training Center will be limited this fall by heavy training activity, and unofficial reports from one tribe show total tribal harvest may be exceeding the number of new branched bulls in the herd, according to the wildlife department."

So the tribe is self reporting that they're literally killing off the bulls? Killing more bulls then are being recruited as calves each year. Wow. Also the Colockum herd has declined as well. They're currently at 4,133 elk up there and the WDFW's goal is 6,000.

I'm late to this discussion and I don't want to get into the tribal stuff, but the first issue about calf survival should be touched upon. Bernie would like a study done but isn't the most likely reason for low calf survival be due to predators? Cats, coyotes, and more recently wolves.....seems obvious that predators need to be reduced and I think Bernie probably knows that.

Let's say they (wdfw) comes up with money for a study and the study reveals what many already now (there are too many predators).  What would wdfw propose to do about it?

Absolutely nothing!  They cant!  No hounds, No wolf killing (unless they are feasting on livestock), and no other controls.  We have a large chunk of voting population in this liberal state that wont allow that.  Most of them would prefer hunting to be outlawed and let the predators control the populations.  Everything in nature back to Adam and Eve times.  The only reason we are hunting now is the revenue we produce they cant live without.  Never forget that!  And every year it will just get worse as fewer and fewer youth hit the mountains hunting and fishing and turn to the technology outlets.

[Bango skank]

https://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoors/troubling-decline-falling-elk-populations-bring-hunting-reductions/article_f8725d29-b19e-503d-af9a-0c1c18054831.html

Full article at the link above but two specific paragraphs in this that were the biggest takeaways for me are:

1.) "Local Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Jeff Bernatowicz said no studies have been done on area calves and researchers don’t know why their survival numbers are historically low. Until that trend reverses, hunters must pay the price with fewer permits available and shortened seasons for archers."

Why have no studies been done on this?

2.) "Bernatowicz noted hunters could also see negative effects from a pair of factors outside their control. Access to the Yakima Training Center will be limited this fall by heavy training activity, and unofficial reports from one tribe show total tribal harvest may be exceeding the number of new branched bulls in the herd, according to the wildlife department."

So the tribe is self reporting that they're literally killing off the bulls? Killing more bulls then are being recruited as calves each year. Wow. Also the Colockum herd has declined as well. They're currently at 4,133 elk up there and the WDFW's goal is 6,000.

Let's say they (wdfw) comes up with money for a study and the study reveals what many already now (there are too many predators).  What would wdfw propose to do about it?

The study would never reveal excessive predators as a problem.  They have an agenda, a predetermined desired outcome to their studies, and they will do their studies in such a way as to reach the desired conclusion.

[trophyhunt]

I want to meet the guy that can pack out 100 elk in a season!

hes on here

[trophyhunt]

I would like to see more roads gated.

That would require getting more keys to open those gates.   

this is exactly the mentality we are dealing with.  This is exactly why we should open the seasons to match the tribes, when your jerky business runs out of meat, maybe then we can sit and talk like adults.