209 primers in WA. Cant believe no one wants them?

[CP]

I thought flint lock was ignited by flint. Not by a primer. 

Yes Ray you are right, I was under the impression and focused on Bobcats refence to a sidelock that uses a #11 cap and not a Flintlockas you stated! My compareasin would be to a sidlock say similar to this one
http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=gpr
not a flintlock as in the pic you posted sorry for that.

Ok. I don't really know the big differences between the primers. Is the 209 a great advantage over the #11? If so can someone explain to an ignoramus why?

A 209 is hotter and can effectively ignite a larger powder charge (similar to a magnum pistol primer).  Without the hotter primer a large load of powder is incompletely burned until it exits the barrel.  Cold and damp conditions exacerbate the relative ineffectiveness of percussion and musket caps.

[Ray]

thanks

[Gobble]

IMO you do not need the 209 primers. I hunted for 10 years using the #11 "German" caps and had no issues. As long as you had powder in the breach and it was dry, your gun was going to ignite

[HoofsandWings]

if you look at the 2007 stats, there were over 13,000 elk muzzleloaders and 10,000 plus deer muzzleloaders.
not as many as rifle, but muzzleloaders can't hunt all of the units modern riflle hunters can.
they are much more concentrated.
IMO.

[bobcat]

Yes they are much more concentrated and that's why rifle season is less crowded than muzzleloader, that is unless you hunt some of the crappy muzzleloader elk units, of which there are several. Seems the only way to avoid the crowds of humans is to also stay away from the areas that have plentiful elk and hunt the poor to mediocre areas.   

[HoofsandWings]

Hi Bobcat,
I was thinking about it while baking bread. If you are young and crazy you can go way into the tall uncut and get your elk, but once you have it down, what next. I shot an elk a few years back and each quarter took 8 hours to get back to the truck. Now if you are a little smarter than I, you bring a support group. So for every hard core way out in the tall uncut hunter, there is a support group that probably hunts the roads or close to them. Depending on the distance you are traveling into the tall uncut, the more support group members you will need. The brother with a pacemaker is not going to help you pack out but can road hunt and attend to camp.
This fall I am going to be in fairly tall uncut, but I am going to make arrangements with nearby camps to help pack out for a piece of the action. It just is facing the reality of getting older. Having said that I am sure there will be hunters that will still go down into that ravine with vertical walls, find an elk and say to themselves 'now what?'

[TopOfTheFoodChain]

Most of us know you certainly don't need a 209 to kill an animal.  But if you allow it and some other incremental changes that moves muzzleloader hunting closer to modern hunting then perhaps too many people will want to jump ship, making the woods a little too crowded during black powder seasons. 

The woods have been too crowded since inline muzzleloaders came out. It gets worse every year. I personally wish we could outlaw inline's completely. I killed plenty of animals with the old side hammer, patch and ball. Those were the good days....

Just my two bits

[callonetta]

I remember when they outlawed in-lines in Colorado back in the 90's. guess what?? T/C came with the Black Mountain rifle, a modern sidelock that could shoot sabots and pellets, I do not think it could use the 209's but musket caps was good enough, also Knight said they were coming out with something similar if they did not lift the ban.
Human ingenuity is limitless.

[Pat/Rick]

Side hammers and original caps or flint.If ya want a primer hunt modern.Outlaw inlines,outlaw compound bows too.

[Moose Eyes]

Side hammers and original caps or flint.If ya want a primer hunt modern.Outlaw inlines,outlaw compound bows too.

Maybe we should outlaw rifled barrels too. 

Ray makes some good points.  With the current muzzleloader regulations in Washington, how different are legal inlines compared to caplocks?  Let's start a list of perceived advantages of legal inlines over caplocks.    Feel free to post them so we can look a little closer at the subject.

[Ghost Hunter]

They cost less than a good BB gun

[Pat/Rick]

I've got a nice smoothbore flinter I can use or a slug gun if I want multiple shots.Lack of rifling wouldn't really bother me at all.

[Moose Eyes]

I've got a nice smoothbore flinter I can use or a slug gun if I want multiple shots.Lack of rifling wouldn't really bother me at all.

What is it about inlines that makes you think they should be outlawed?  Do you think they are inherently more lethal, making them an unfair choice over a more primative weapon?  Or do you think the general hunting public thinks they offer an advantage, which has lead to more hunters switching to muzzleloader seasons?  Or

FYI - not trying to get on your case here.  I'm just trying to see what specifically people dislike about inlines.  Dialogue is good! 

[CP]

Inlines are cheaper to make but they are no more accurate, or reliable or powerful than a sidelock.  In fact, inlines are more prone to misfires because the nipple/flash hole is right at the bottom where all the fouling falls during reloading.  Accuracy is all about the barrel and the trigger.  A sidelock can be fitted with any barrel and the dual trigger set on the Hawken plains rifle about as good as it gets.  My Santa Fe Hawken has a better trigger pull than any of my modern rifles.

[ratherhunt]

Primative should be just that Primative but that coming from someone who shots a Knight Bighorn inline