Holy slow

[Rainier10]

I do think that there is a mentality among many, not all but many, quality permit holders that the deer are rutting and will be highly visible. Just cover ground and you'll see them. Getting away from the road and really using glass to pick apart terrain isn't part of the equation to them. While there will be times when those bucks are stupid and cruising the wide open, more often they are still deer with survival instincts. The big ones got big by surviving and that usually means away from roads somewhat and sticking to cover. I'm not going to bash hunters, but I do think many could do a much better job of looking for animals, myself included.

Your right on the money 7mmfan, a couple weeks ago I was over doing some counts and seen 22 bucks in a particular area, 6 of those were 3 point or better and 5 of those were absolute monster bucks, a couple huge non-typs and 3 big typicals in the 26-30 inch range. The 6 3 point or better bucks(that included those 5 big fellas) were all bedded in an assortment of crap and thickets while their does and smaller bucks were milling around 20-100 yards away, I literally had to pick the terrain apart to spot just a piece of them, then move into different positions and set up a spotting scope to get looks at them.

This time of the year almost every group of does has a smallish buck often a two point hanging around and almost always there is a masher nearby but not so obvious.  Bed down in a bush or by a log.  They get up and chase around but if you don't see one normally it is that you aren't looking close enough.  I have learned this the hard way, bumping a group of deer trying to get to a big one only to realize that the group that I bumped that didn't have and shooters in it just a small two point actually did have a masher that I just didn't see.

[7mmfan]

I do think that there is a mentality among many, not all but many, quality permit holders that the deer are rutting and will be highly visible. Just cover ground and you'll see them. Getting away from the road and really using glass to pick apart terrain isn't part of the equation to them. While there will be times when those bucks are stupid and cruising the wide open, more often they are still deer with survival instincts. The big ones got big by surviving and that usually means away from roads somewhat and sticking to cover. I'm not going to bash hunters, but I do think many could do a much better job of looking for animals, myself included.

Your right on the money 7mmfan, a couple weeks ago I was over doing some counts and seen 22 bucks in a particular area, 6 of those were 3 point or better and 5 of those were absolute monster bucks, a couple huge non-typs and 3 big typicals in the 26-30 inch range. The 6 3 point or better bucks(that included those 5 big fellas) were all bedded in an assortment of crap and thickets while their does and smaller bucks were milling around 20-100 yards away, I literally had to pick the terrain apart to spot just a piece of them, then move into different positions and set up a spotting scope to get looks at them.

This time of the year almost every group of does has a smallish buck often a two point hanging around and almost always there is a masher nearby but not so obvious.  Bed down in a bush or by a log.  They get up and chase around but if you don't see one normally it is that you aren't looking close enough.  I have learned this the hard way, bumping a group of deer trying to get to a big one only to realize that the group that I bumped that didn't have and shooters in it just a small two point actually did have a masher that I just didn't see.

Yep, I agree. Back to survival. They got big by surviving. The bucks that hang out in the open to long die.

I think the saying goes something like, "An old bull and young bull are standing on a hilltop watching a herd of cows down below them. The young bull says, "lets run down there and &%# one of those cows!" The old bull says, "Lets walk down there and &%# all of those cows."

The old buck knows not to waste his time and precious calories standing around in the open chasing does until they're ready. He'll just bed down close by and bide his time, and let the 2 point get shot.

[2MANY]

Them old bulls sure iz smart.

[bigmacc]

I do think that there is a mentality among many, not all but many, quality permit holders that the deer are rutting and will be highly visible. Just cover ground and you'll see them. Getting away from the road and really using glass to pick apart terrain isn't part of the equation to them. While there will be times when those bucks are stupid and cruising the wide open, more often they are still deer with survival instincts. The big ones got big by surviving and that usually means away from roads somewhat and sticking to cover. I'm not going to bash hunters, but I do think many could do a much better job of looking for animals, myself included.

Your right on the money 7mmfan, a couple weeks ago I was over doing some counts and seen 22 bucks in a particular area, 6 of those were 3 point or better and 5 of those were absolute monster bucks, a couple huge non-typs and 3 big typicals in the 26-30 inch range. The 6 3 point or better bucks(that included those 5 big fellas) were all bedded in an assortment of crap and thickets while their does and smaller bucks were milling around 20-100 yards away, I literally had to pick the terrain apart to spot just a piece of them, then move into different positions and set up a spotting scope to get looks at them.

This time of the year almost every group of does has a smallish buck often a two point hanging around and almost always there is a masher nearby but not so obvious.  Bed down in a bush or by a log.  They get up and chase around but if you don't see one normally it is that you aren't looking close enough.  I have learned this the hard way, bumping a group of deer trying to get to a big one only to realize that the group that I bumped that didn't have and shooters in it just a small two point actually did have a masher that I just didn't see.

 ...I won't say all but a lot of folks that get these late tags(or rut tags as some call them) think that if they come onto a bunch of does that has a little spike or 2 point running with them then "the big guy" isn't around or he would have kicked them out. Cant tell you how many little bucks I've seen with a nice harem of does smack dab in peak rut with a whopper laying around out on the fringes, just resting. When he gets up to do his business he'll move em out of the way for a bit.

[boneaddict]

Pic is worth a thousand words....(not the above buck but another I got this fall)

[outdooraddict]

is that doe yelling "hey bone, get these pests away from me" lol

[2MANY]

I think she is complaining that her back is sore.

[lamrith]

I always pick stuff apart with a pair of Swaro 15's on a small tripod.
Can I have a late season rut tag now please.

Too True!  I went to 15x56 on a tripod a year ago for a Coues deer hunt.  That particular power is really good for picking areas apart and much easier on the eyes than a spotter.  Ended up only pulling the spotter out one time to ID a deer that was really far off that the 15's could not pull in well enough.

[2MANY]

I've almost stopped packing my spotter.

I can fit 3 - 12 oz cans in my pack where it used to be.