Switched to 209 primers....should I switch to pellets not also??

[jrebel]

I have two black diamond XR's that I have converted to 209 primer system.  I shoot 110 grains of loose powder currently and have stayed away from powder pellets due to reviews of poor ignition issues.  With the 209 primers, is is better to stay with loose powder or go pellets due to the hotter ignition??  Pellets would be a lot easier and I'm sure 100 grains would suit me just fine.  Thoughts?? 

[kselkhunter]

I'd stay with powder.

I started out with the pellets when I was learning, and powder is just so much cleaner and reliable.  Powder is just as easy as a pellet. 

[optic2]

Another vote for staying with powder.

[KFhunter]

just pre-load test tube vials?

[jrebel]

The ease of pellets is awfully tempting, especially being that my 11 yo son will be shooting a smoke pole this year.  With that said, if there are still concerns with pellets and ignition problems, I will likely stay with loose powder.  My set up right now is pretty easy to use.

I do like the looks of the test tubes.  Do you use them and how do the lids stay on?  That is my only grip with my current speed loaders, the lids will sometimes open filling my possibles bag or pocket with loose powder. 

[KFhunter]

I don't have these particular ones, but I think I might go screw top with what you're saying.


I'm new to muzzle loader, just got one this year so I'm figuring it out myself. 

[kselkhunter]

I use Blackhorn209 powder now, and they make a test tube specifically for that with the charge notations on the side.  Just as easy as pellets were before when I kept them in load tubes. 

Those Pyrodex pellets burn so dirty.  I don't miss them. 

[jrebel]

My pyrodex select loose has performed very well.  I will stick with it and look for a better way to carry the powder charges.  Primarily looking for an easier method for the kid to shoot / learn. 

[Timberstalker]

I used pellets with musket caps before 209’s were legal and never had an issue.
They are easy and work well for me. YMMV.

[KFhunter]

My pyrodex select loose has performed very well.  I will stick with it and look for a better way to carry the powder charges.  Primarily looking for an easier method for the kid to shoot / learn.

Ya, I keep going back to test tubes,  powder measured at home into test tubes,  then carried to the field.

[Damnimissed]

The possible time you might save by switching to pellets is negligible. I’ve even reloaded on my knees with the rifle at a severe angle and didn’t lose any powder. You should at least try BH209 powder as well. It’s so much cleaner than Pyrodex and I believe, produces better velocity.

[KFhunter]

The possible time you might save by switching to pellets is negligible. I’ve even reloaded on my knees with the rifle at a severe angle and didn’t lose any powder. You should at least try BH209 powder as well. It’s so much cleaner than Pyrodex and I believe, produces better velocity.

In one article I read they did a test of various powders, BH was #2 velocity usually but most importantly it was the most consistent velocity of them all by a good margin, and so more accurite.  My only question remaining on BH powder is cleaning it in the field.  I'll be using BH209 soon but I'm having trouble sourcing it locally and the corona thing has kept me from going to Spokane, and I don't want to pay the hazmat to ship it. 

Since I'll be hunting Idaho muzzie,  and Washington both,  I got the CVA optima northwest then got a 209 conversion kit,  but I didn't realize the 209 conversion kit isn't the same as the BH209 breach plug. 

I also didn't realize Federal 209A primers are a bit too strong for 777 loose powder using a standard 209 breach plug,  and can shove the powder forward before it ignites.   

So I got Winchester 777 209 primers (reduced power) to use with 777 loose powder,  it's shooting very well but it is filthy. 

Still I can shoot about 3 times if I needed too in the field w/o cleaning but by #4 and beyond you gotta really get aggressive shoving down the bullet. 
Why did I test that?  meh, I like to know what I can do with it.   Accuracy drops off pretty quickly too. 


So for Washington I'll need to get the BH209 breach plug to shoot the Blackhorn loose powder, then I'll be using my federal 209a primers I got and I think that'll be a whiz bang combo and probably won't ever not use that in the future for WA and other states where it meets the requirements. 

For Idaho... I'll keep the musket cap breach plug that has holes in it to meet the 'open to elements' requirement for Idaho, and use hodgson 777 loose powder pushing a 295gr powerbelt and I think that'll be a great combo for Idaho.   

I haven't shot the musket cap setup yet, but think it'll work good,  I need to get it out and run it. 

[kselkhunter]

Sounds like a good plan

I like Blackhorn powder mostly because it's so much cleaner burning.

I only load 110gr so dont even do max loads. Sure I could get more velocity but 110gr is very accurate for me.

[JimmyHoffa]

For the tougher loading on the 4th or more shots, have you tried the crush rib sabots?  Those things are so much easier to load after the barrel is fouled.  I get to about shot 10 before needing to clean.
For my kit, I carry a little wrench, socket and a small drill bit.  I can pull the breech really quickly and then clean it out.
I found that with regular caps it only took a small wire through the flash hole to keep things going; but for 209 primers with the associated breech plug, the carbon build up caused a drop in ignition and led to accuracy spread.  A wire only cleared through the center, not the sides so the drill bit cleans up the sides.

[KFhunter]

I'm using the CVA breach plug cleaner, comes with drill bit, a wire that slides out for the flash hole, and can clean the steps inside the breach plug


seems to work pretty good,  I thought I was getting a tiny drill bit for the flash hole but evidently they kept having it break..I can see that, those tiny drill bits are fragile. 


I have not tried the sabots,  just 295 gr power belts so far, as that's what they had locally in good supply. 

[Damnimissed]

The possible time you might save by switching to pellets is negligible. I’ve even reloaded on my knees with the rifle at a severe angle and didn’t lose any powder. You should at least try BH209 powder as well. It’s so much cleaner than Pyrodex and I believe, produces better velocity.

In one article I read they did a test of various powders, BH was #2 velocity usually but most importantly it was the most consistent velocity of them all by a good margin, and so more accurite.  My only question remaining on BH powder is cleaning it in the field.  I'll be using BH209 soon but I'm having trouble sourcing it locally and the corona thing has kept me from going to Spokane, and I don't want to pay the hazmat to ship it. 

Since I'll be hunting Idaho muzzie,  and Washington both,  I got the CVA optima northwest then got a 209 conversion kit,  but I didn't realize the 209 conversion kit isn't the same as the BH209 breach plug. 

I also didn't realize Federal 209A primers are a bit too strong for 777 loose powder using a standard 209 breach plug,  and can shove the powder forward before it ignites.   

So I got Winchester 777 209 primers (reduced power) to use with 777 loose powder,  it's shooting very well but it is filthy. 

Still I can shoot about 3 times if I needed too in the field w/o cleaning but by #4 and beyond you gotta really get aggressive shoving down the bullet. 
Why did I test that?  meh, I like to know what I can do with it.   Accuracy drops off pretty quickly too. 


So for Washington I'll need to get the BH209 breach plug to shoot the Blackhorn loose powder, then I'll be using my federal 209a primers I got and I think that'll be a whiz bang combo and probably won't ever not use that in the future for WA and other states where it meets the requirements. 

For Idaho... I'll keep the musket cap breach plug that has holes in it to meet the 'open to elements' requirement for Idaho, and use hodgson 777 loose powder pushing a 295gr powerbelt and I think that'll be a great combo for Idaho.   

I haven't shot the musket cap setup yet, but think it'll work good,  I need to get it out and run it.

I also use a NW legal Optima that I converted to 209 and also have the correct BP for loose powder. Mine shoots awesome with 100gr BH209, Fed 209A, and a 290gr Barnes T-EZ. I weigh my charges at home and carry them in the BH charge tubes. I can also shoot over a dozen shots without swabbing, probably more, I just haven’t tried. But I never do a full cleaning during a session, just an occasional spit patch followed by a couple clean patches. Oh, and check out the new Williams globe sights for the Optima. I just ordered a set. Should be a game changer for me.

[coachcw]

i use the pyrodex pellets with 209 and 250 barnes ez . you can shoot it ten times , maybe more thats where i stopped . when i went from 100 grains to 150 i didnt get a full burn.

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

I use something similar to this guy to hold my primers and pre-measured powder... haven't had any problems.... yet. Mine has 4 tubes, and this only has 3.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/muzzleloader-black-powder-guns-equipment-supplies/black-powder-accessories/tc-u-view-flex-loader/p/1105907

Got this in the HuntWA gift exchange. Pretty excited to through it in the arsenal as well.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/muzzleloader-black-powder-guns-equipment-supplies/black-powder-accessories/traditions-5-in-1-loader/p/303506

[jrebel]

I bought som bh209 powder to try at some of the recommendations of HW members....   $40 per 10oz container.     It better work well.  Holy moly it would be cheaper to shoot gold dust out the barrel.   

[Damnimissed]

I bought som bh209 powder to try at some of the recommendations of HW members....   $40 per 10oz container.     It better work well.  Holy moly it would be cheaper to shoot gold dust out the barrel.   

If you run 100gr by volume, which is equal to 70gr weighed,  that should give you about 62 charges. It’s not cheap but worth it IMO.

[Skyvalhunter]

You should switch back to the other primers

[grundy53]

I bought som bh209 powder to try at some of the recommendations of HW members....   $40 per 10oz container.     It better work well.  Holy moly it would be cheaper to shoot gold dust out the barrel.   

I think it's worth it. Especially when I'm cleaning my muzzleloader.

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