Rim Fire Rifle use during fall turkey season

[MHWASH]

So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15.  Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons.  This was a compromise we suggested.

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I think this is the wrong way to go about it. It’s already been stated that there are lots of unethical and unsafe hunters during the deer and elk seasons.
 If the rimfire season was put towards the end of the season, that’s when I believe you would have the more dedicated, and safer hunters out there.

[hunter399]

So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15.  Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons.  This was a compromise we suggested.

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I think this is the wrong way to go about it. It’s already been stated that there are lots of unethical and unsafe hunters during the deer and elk seasons.
 If the rimfire season was put towards the end of the season, that’s when I believe you would have the more dedicated, and safer hunters out there.

I totally agree MHWASH
They played the safety card,that rimrire was a huge safety issue ,so they got the season put in with deer elk modern season so people have to wear orange ECT. I really don't think the safety card was well thought out.But is what it is.
And at the end of the day nussianse turkeys will still be a problem,kill permits will still be issued.
You still have a reduced hunter oppertunitty.
Instead of just letting the rule change go through and remind people in the regs be aware of your target and what's beyond it. We are now stuck with even more people out during moderm firearm.
Let's create a whole new season of 22 Turkey hunts right in the middle of deer season.
WHOOOOOO GO TEAM!

[WAcoyotehunter]

I enjoy turkey hunting and do it every spring, but if I had my way the state would issue a punch card (like a catch record card) for 10 birds at a time and have  LONG seasons with very few restrictions. 

[Russ McDonald]

So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15.  Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons.  This was a compromise we suggested.

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So I may have read it wrong but this is what they sent me "At this time, we’re planning to adjust the proposal to allow rimfire hunting Oct 15-Nov 15 only"  I am gueasing you can still hunt with a shotgun to but still have to wear huntee orange or pink.

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[hunter399]

I enjoy turkey hunting and do it every spring, but if I had my way the state would issue a punch card (like a catch record card) for 10 birds at a time and have  LONG seasons with very few restrictions.

There was a time when your Turkey tag was given to you if you bought a small game licence with your big game licence ,that only ran few years like that .Then you had to pay separate for your Turkey tag and changed reg book to paying separate for tag.It was kinda like a thing to get ya to buy the small game free Turkey tag comes with.

[MtnMuley]

I enjoy turkey hunting and do it every spring, but if I had my way the state would issue a punch card (like a catch record card) for 10 birds at a time and have  LONG seasons with very few restrictions.

Interesting approach coming from a biologist. So you're telling me that in many parts of the state with far less abundant wild turkey populations than the NE, that you think having punch cards for 10 birds at a time is good management? That's absurd in my eyes. We have a month and a half season in the spring during prime dates to harvest up to 3 birds and a very generous fall season with opportunities for those committed to harvest several more birds. I think the state's turkey management plan is right on par.

[emac]

So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15.  Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons.  This was a compromise we suggested.

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Who carries a rim fire during modern season?  Doesn't make much sense to me for those dates.

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[The Gobble-stopper]

Agree trap and relocate. More chance of injuries to humans and more wounded birds getting away. Rim fires, poorer chance of lethal shots on birds, and that is not fair to the birds, or ethical to teach our youth.

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.

I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.

With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.

There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.

For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).

There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.

Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.

I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.

A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters

I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.

I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.

[huntnphool]

 Is this all rimfire or .22 specific? My kids can hit a gnats ass at 100 yards with my .17HMR

[Russ McDonald]

Is this all rimfire or .22 specific? My kids can hit a gnats ass at 100 yards with my .17HMR

Any rim fire.  I believe I have said that somewhere in all of this.

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[Russ McDonald]

I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.

I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.

With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.

There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.

For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).

There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.

Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.

I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.

A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters

I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.

I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.

I totally agree with what you have have said.  Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire.  As for better management of turkeys.  I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president.  We need more trap and transport agreed.  The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state.  That is the way it has always been.  The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game.  Water fowl is federal.  Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport.  Basically used Oregons.  We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved.   Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen.  A little background on turkeys brought into the state.  This was way before I even lived in the state.  NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state.  The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this.  At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state.  They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it. 

As far as the rim fire.  Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there.  As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop.  It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course.  Do people abide by this.  I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't.  Example although this was during the spring season a couple.  One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land.  A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot.  They peppered both guys.   They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right.  This incident was posted on the forum.  Both guys are ok but  would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire.  Most likely. 

By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall.  I use it all the time that I have been out.  The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.

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[hunter399]

My real problem with it is I have another hunter telling me that it's impossible to make an ethical,safe ,kill on a Turkey with a rimfire.Telling me my youth hunter and I couldn't make that call out in the field.
Then what it's really about is Turkey management and not wanting Turkey hunters to fill there tags in the fall ,so there are more Turkey in the spring.
I don't care about season length,bag limits,and transplanting birds all over the state.
I just don't understand how a simple rule change as of this could not go through .rimfire for grouse is gonna go through so you could of hunted grouse and Turkey before deer and elk modern with one weapon and then went out after modern to hunt grouse and Turkey with one weapon without orange on.How many grouse or Turkey hunter might be predator hunting as well in these time frames and pop a coyote or bobcat that might be following the turkeys.
I'm not gonna carry two rifles Durring modern ,maybe in the truck but not 5 miles into the Bush.You guys made it about as hard as you could to hunt Turkey with a rimfire as you could .Slowing down Hunter opportunities.

[hunter399]

I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.

I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.

With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.

There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.

For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).

There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.

Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.

I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.

A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters

I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.

I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.

I totally agree with what you have have said.  Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire.  As for better management of turkeys.  I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president.  We need more trap and transport agreed.  The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state.  That is the way it has always been.  The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game.  Water fowl is federal.  Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport.  Basically used Oregons.  We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved.   Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen.  A little background on turkeys brought into the state.  This was way before I even lived in the state.  NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state.  The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this.  At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state.  They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it. 

As far as the rim fire.  Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there.  As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop.  It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course.  Do people abide by this.  I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't.  Example although this was during the spring season a couple.  One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land.  A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot.  They peppered both guys.   They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right.  This incident was posted on the forum.  Both guys are ok but  would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire.  Most likely. 

By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall.  I use it all the time that I have been out.  The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.

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So do you advocate wearing orange for spring Turkey hunt or fall grouse Rim fire hunting,or should we all stand in the woods in front of our game animals and wait for you to make the call on a safe ethical shot.

[Wanttohuntmore]

I'm against it. Increase the season or amount allowed in the over populated areas.