Free: Contests & Raffles.
Don't personally see too many flocks of grouse hanging around people's houses and feedlots. Kind of comparing apples to oranges
Quote from: baldopepper on December 10, 2020, 12:01:31 PMDon't personally see too many flocks of grouse hanging around people's houses and feedlots. Kind of comparing apples to orangesWell. They should probably not let people hunt deer with high powered rifles then. since I see deer hanging around people's houses and feedlots.Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Here is my issue with all of this. There isn't any public ground completely over run with birds. This is absolutely a private land issue with these winter flocks. So landowners complain about turkeys, don't allow hunter access, but then get kill permits that they can then turn around and sell. Happens with turkeys, happens with elk, and happens with deer. So why pass a rule that will only further diminish the limited number of birds that are actually on public? There needs to be actual change and accountability to how this state approaches private land access. Our written permission program is an absolute joke. The abuse by many landowners and the complete incompetence by the state to manage the program is insulting. Let's fix this issue before we further deplete OUR resource. Do something meaningful on this front and I'd be all for changes to weapon restrictions (and I'm a turkey purist as someone else coined it).With that said:1. Sept 1 - Jan 312. Hunter orange required3. I like the "salmon punch card" idea4. Aggressive transplanting to Kittitas and Yakima County's 5. People with the last name Blanchard get dibs on all the really big Tom's.....
Quote from: Russ McDonald on December 11, 2020, 05:42:28 AMQuote from: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 10, 2020, 11:59:29 PMI don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here. I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal. There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal. I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land-AND/OR-B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all huntersI personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc. I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.I totally agree with what you have have said. Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire. As for better management of turkeys. I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president. We need more trap and transport agreed. The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state. That is the way it has always been. The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game. Water fowl is federal. Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport. Basically used Oregons. We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved. Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen. A little background on turkeys brought into the state. This was way before I even lived in the state. NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state. The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this. At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state. They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it. As far as the rim fire. Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there. As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop. It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course. Do people abide by this. I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't. Example although this was during the spring season a couple. One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land. A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot. They peppered both guys. They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right. This incident was posted on the forum. Both guys are ok but would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire. Most likely. By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall. I use it all the time that I have been out. The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.Sent from my SM-N976V using TapatalkSo do you advocate wearing orange for spring Turkey hunt or fall grouse Rim fire hunting,or should we all stand in the woods in front of our game animals and wait for you to make the call on a safe ethical shot.
Quote from: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 10, 2020, 11:59:29 PMI don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here. I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal. There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal. I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land-AND/OR-B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all huntersI personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc. I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.I totally agree with what you have have said. Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire. As for better management of turkeys. I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president. We need more trap and transport agreed. The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state. That is the way it has always been. The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game. Water fowl is federal. Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport. Basically used Oregons. We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved. Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen. A little background on turkeys brought into the state. This was way before I even lived in the state. NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state. The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this. At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state. They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it. As far as the rim fire. Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there. As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop. It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course. Do people abide by this. I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't. Example although this was during the spring season a couple. One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land. A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot. They peppered both guys. They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right. This incident was posted on the forum. Both guys are ok but would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire. Most likely. By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall. I use it all the time that I have been out. The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here. I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal. There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal. I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land-AND/OR-B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all huntersI personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc. I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.
Let's be honest here, the proposal has nothing to do with hunting or hunters or improving access or opportunity.People have problems with turkeys and don't allow hunting on their property and the state wants the phone to stop ringing with the minimum amount of work and dollars. State issues depredation tags and allows semi-auto rimfire hunting. What do we think is the objective here and what will happen?The state is pretty good about disguising a stone as a bone and throwing it to license holders. Kind of reminds me of when they allowed barbs back on the big C as a way to get nets back in the water. We are then supposed to run around with glee like we are actually getting something.
This is a bad idea because, well, frankly... PEOPLE ARE STUPID! As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
