Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?

[Alan K]

No... I think you need to re-educate yourself on MOA Dan-O.

4 MOA at 300 yards is 12 inches (more like 12.5" in reality). When you make a 1/4 minute adjustment when sighting in your gun for 100 yards, does it move POI 1/4" or 1/2"?

Say you shoot a 4 shot group at 100 yards...  One 2" high, one 1.5" high, one in the bullseye, and one 2" low.  (All perfect windage for arguments sake) That is a 4 MOA group. What you're describing is missing the bullseye by 4 MOA.

Groups are described as measured from outside shot to outside shot, not distance from the bullseye.

[Dan-o]

No... I think you need to re-educate yourself on MOA Dan-O.

4 MOA at 300 yards is 12 inches (more like 12.5" in reality). When you make a 1/4 minute adjustment when sighting in your gun for 100 yards, does it move POI 1/4" or 1/2"?

Say you shoot a 4 shot group at 100 yards...  One 2" high, one 1.5" high, one in the bullseye, and one 2" low.  (All perfect windage for arguments sake) That is a 4 MOA group. What you're describing is missing the bullseye by 4 MOA.

Groups are described as measured from outside shot to outside shot, not distance from the bullseye.

I stand corrected.     

If we ever bump into each other, I owe you a cheeseburger.

Hopefully, while eating these cheeseburgers we can head out to see the bull in back of my truck that I shot with my fancy new scoped muzzleloader.

[Alan K]

 

[dilleytech]

I hope like heck they won’t allow scopes of any kind, we will loose too much in the long run. But if they do allow 1x scopes and I believe they just might, will, looks like I’m in the market for a 1x scope and I can tell you this, there aren’t very many options out there

I don't think there are any options at all that aren't a holographic type scope  i did a search and couldn't find any

I will buy any 1x4 or whatever with BDC reticle, turn it down to 1X jb weld the scope in place and be prepared to take it to court with any numb skull gamy who can’t obviously see the scope isn’t capable of anything greater then 1X. Just like a plug in my shotgun makes an illegal weapon legal. They would understand the intent of the law.

[Karl Blanchard]

Id prefer an moa reticle or a turret over BDC personally. But ultimate preference is still no scopes allowed period.

[Magnum_Willys]

Id prefer an moa reticle or a turret over BDC personally. But ultimate preference is still no scopes allowed period.

Turrets on one power muzzys - I like it! 

[dilleytech]

Id prefer an moa reticle or a turret over BDC personally. But ultimate preference is still no scopes allowed period.

Agreed. No scopes period. But If there going allow scopes why not allow illuminated reticles.

[M_ray]

100% against scopes on muzzleloaders. I've hunted muzzleloader season in Washington since 1984. Scopes being legal will ruin it for me. I really doubt that they will be legal, but if so, I'll be selling my muzzleloader and will only hunt modern. I like my scoped rifles, but muzzleloaders just aren't muzzleloaders with a scope mounted on top, in my mind. If it does happen it will hopefully make modern seasons less crowded.

 Who says you have to give it up? you don’t have to change just cause the law changes or technology Improves.

Guess I Don’t understand this logic 

[bobcat]

100% against scopes on muzzleloaders. I've hunted muzzleloader season in Washington since 1984. Scopes being legal will ruin it for me. I really doubt that they will be legal, but if so, I'll be selling my muzzleloader and will only hunt modern. I like my scoped rifles, but muzzleloaders just aren't muzzleloaders with a scope mounted on top, in my mind. If it does happen it will hopefully make modern seasons less crowded.

 Who says you have to give it up? you don’t have to change just cause the law changes or technology Improves.

Guess I Don’t understand this logic 

Because I don't agree with it. With scopes we would now have essentially just another modern firearm season. Only real difference is a single shot versus having the ability to shoot 4 or 5 times quickly.

The way I see it is both archery and muzzleloader seasons are for dedicated hunters who are able and willing to dedicate more time into practicing year around. This should limit the number of people participating in archery and muzzleloader seasons. But instead, with the possible addition of scopes on muzzleloaders, my feeling is that the numbers of people hunting muzzleloader seasons will increase substantially.

When I hunt muzzleloader seasons I do so because there are a lot less other hunters in the field. Take that advantage away and I'm no longer interested.

[M_ray]

Bobcat good argument if they were allowing scopes with magnification. I already admitted I’ve never seen through a 1x scoped reticle but I have looked through a 1x red dot and 1x halo sight and IMHO it isn’t going be much of a difference out past 100-150.

I do agree that adding a 4x or 3x9 ect would Be more of the game changer everyone is afraid of here. Who knows maybe people are really more afraid that allowing a 1x would be the gateway to allowing variable magnifications 

[BigGoonTuna]

Just to play devil’s advocate here, but you often hear guys talking about .45-70s as being a “brush gun” and no good over 150 yards. A .50 cal muzzleloader has roughly the same ballistics as a .45-70, so why would a higher magnification be a “game changer” over a 1x scope in this situation?

[M_ray]

Just to play devil’s advocate here, but you often hear guys talking about .45-70s as being a “brush gun” and no good over 150 yards. A .50 cal muzzleloader has roughly the same ballistics as a .45-70, so why would a higher magnification be a “game changer” over a 1x scope in this situation?

I know nothing about a .45-70 but I have shot my own muzzleloader with a 4x scope on it at 200 and without and I can tell that it’s not much of a problem with the scope but tough without.  I‘D hardly say a muzzleloader these days ...  ” Isn’t much good over 150” Ive killed an elk at 191 with open sights.

[Stein]

This is very similar to the video on the 1400 yard elk kill.  Just because many think that's twice or four times as far as they would shoot doesn't mean that a magical limitation exists on how far people would or could shoot.

There are several things that could limit the distance one would shoot and I think it's hard to argue that better sights would not make at least a decent percentage of people comfortable shooting farther.  It will also increase accuracy at most ranges.  Both would be expected to increase the harvest some level, maybe a bunch, maybe rounding error, who knows?

[Jonathan_S]

Just to play devil’s advocate here, but you often hear guys talking about .45-70s as being a “brush gun” and no good over 150 yards. A .50 cal muzzleloader has roughly the same ballistics as a .45-70, so why would a higher magnification be a “game changer” over a 1x scope in this situation?

The limiting factor for both weapons is the ability to aim and/or knowledge and practice with the external ballistics. The terminal ballistics of either allow for farther shots.

[pd]

4 more pages, Gentlemen.  Then we exceed the previous record for this topic.