New bill will greatly impact DIY nonresident hunters in Montana

[baker5150]

just turning hunting into a rich man's sport by the day

Kind of.  Overall, Newberg brought up the point that Montana actually provides one of the best values for a tag.  If you compare their price to say, Wyoming's special or Utah or New Mexico... Montana is hard to beat.

I agree in the value but I still think that the $300 early/special or whatever you want to call it draw only favors people with more disposable income. I can't blame states for trying to bring in more revenue but it just stinks the way things are trending

100% agree.

I'm not sure what the right answer is here.  It's a constant balance of managing public lands, private land partnerships, biological studies on wildlife, enforcement, etc.... and budget. 

Work hard, make money, keep expenses low and go hunting

This will potentially hurt families the most.  Guys who buy 3+ tags a year.  Especially if they require everyone in a group to pay the 300 fee.  There is no value in a something you can no longer afford.

"IF APPLYING 27 AS A PARTY, EACH PERSON MUST PAY THE APPLICATION FEE."

[vandeman17]

just turning hunting into a rich man's sport by the day

Kind of.  Overall, Newberg brought up the point that Montana actually provides one of the best values for a tag.  If you compare their price to say, Wyoming's special or Utah or New Mexico... Montana is hard to beat.

I agree in the value but I still think that the $300 early/special or whatever you want to call it draw only favors people with more disposable income. I can't blame states for trying to bring in more revenue but it just stinks the way things are trending

100% agree.

I'm not sure what the right answer is here.  It's a constant balance of managing public lands, private land partnerships, biological studies on wildlife, enforcement, etc.... and budget. 

Work hard, make money, keep expenses low and go hunting

This will potentially hurt families the most.  Guys who buy 3+ tags a year.  Especially if they require everyone in a group to pay the 300 fee.  There is no value in a something you can no longer afford.

"IF APPLYING 27 AS A PARTY, EACH PERSON MUST PAY THE APPLICATION FEE."

exactly and I almost said the same thing.

[ctwiggs1]

just turning hunting into a rich man's sport by the day

Kind of.  Overall, Newberg brought up the point that Montana actually provides one of the best values for a tag.  If you compare their price to say, Wyoming's special or Utah or New Mexico... Montana is hard to beat.

Is this factoring in opportunity, season length etc? or just a straight up price comparison?

Price comparison.  Basically his point was that WY special elk permits are about the same cost as the deer+elk combo in MT.  There is a lot more to it than that obviously but he was mostly just using that to counter what the other guy was saying. 

[ctwiggs1]

Totally get it guys.  Same team here.  If this year's WY trip got bumped up by $300ea it wouldn't break us, but it might cut into any other hunting plans I have.

At the end of the day, the pot of money we use for hunting is only so big.

[vandeman17]

Totally get it guys.  Same team here.  If this year's WY trip got bumped up by $300ea it wouldn't break us, but it might cut into any other hunting plans I have.

At the end of the day, the pot of money we use for hunting is only so big.

I was agreeing with you the whole time. 

[dvolmer]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

[ctwiggs1]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

Not going to tick me off by presenting an opposing opinion.

That said, I'm not familiar with Wyoming taking more than a third of their non resident tags and reserving them for outfitted hunts only.

The wording has changed but that has been the agenda for this from the beginning.

[whacker1]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

Not going to tick me off by presenting an opposing opinion.

That said, I'm not familiar with Wyoming taking more than a third of their non resident tags and reserving them for outfitted hunts only.

The wording has changed but that has been the agenda for this from the beginning.

I appreciate everyone's comments and have been reading from beginning to end.  i would disagree with the last comments, but only in the context that Wyoming's outfitter's limited the area we non-residents can access by requiring a guide or resident guide to access the wilderness.   while it may not be financial in tag fish and game revenenue it is if you want to go to that area as it is $5500 (more or less) to hire the outfitter for a week.  So, while it is not a direct correlation, the intent is the same. 

[dvolmer]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

Not going to tick me off by presenting an opposing opinion.

That said, I'm not familiar with Wyoming taking more than a third of their non resident tags and reserving them for outfitted hunts only.

The wording has changed but that has been the agenda for this from the beginning.

Ya, I don't really understand the outfitter thing.  I've never been on a outfitted hunt before.  But maybe by hiking up the price, more of the outfitters will be able to get their clients tags.  I guess if you are paying thousands for an outfitter, what is $300 more.  I am assuming now that the draw is getting harder to get a tag every year, the outfitters want a way to guarantee a client can hunt.  Am I missing something in the way the bill has been changed?  Looks to me with the proposal now submitted, that the guides wont be guaranteed tags but they will just go to a second higher cost drawing.  Maybe I didn't read it right.

[whacker1]

In giving it a day to sink on what an additional $300 does for the early application and getting 2 shots at the bite of the apple, MFWP would get somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,500,000 if they were able to collect that fee from 5000 people.   40% of 12,500 tags in the big game combo is 5000 tags and multiplied by $300.

this is immensely frustrating as it is definitely a pay to play system.  But given the math, i would be surprised if it didn't happen.

Unknowns, if you don't draw special permit, do they refund the extra $300 if requested?

if you draw in the regular draw after applying in the special i assume you give up the $300 as you have had 2 bites of the apple and you still drew the tag, even if it was in the second draw.

But what if you don't draw in either special or regular due to demand?  do they refund the extra $300 then?  i would assume they would have to, but the bill is not clear on process and i assume that is handled in rule making.

[whacker1]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

Not going to tick me off by presenting an opposing opinion.

That said, I'm not familiar with Wyoming taking more than a third of their non resident tags and reserving them for outfitted hunts only.

The wording has changed but that has been the agenda for this from the beginning.

Ya, I don't really understand the outfitter thing.  I've never been on a outfitted hunt before.  But maybe by hiking up the price, more of the outfitters will be able to get their clients tags.  I guess if you are paying thousands for an outfitter, what is $300 more.  I am assuming now that the draw is getting harder to get a tag every year, the outfitters want a way to guarantee a client can hunt.  Am I missing something in the way the bill has been changed?  Looks to me with the proposal now submitted, that the guides wont be guaranteed tags but they will just go to a second higher cost drawing.  Maybe I didn't read it right.

You are reading it correctly.  no guarantee for guides, but cost you more for early application, which should give applicant better draw odds.

[DWBMontana]

I have hunted Montana for deer for the last 12 years without missing a year.  With the amount of applicants increasing and the way it is run now, I probably will have to start sitting out every other year or soon every three years.  I'm 55 years old now and seeing that I wont be hunting or be able to hunt forever.  I'm in pretty decent shape for 55 but the old bones/joints are starting to ache when they shouldn't be.  Would I be willing to pay an extra $300 to increase my odds and hunt every year?  You bet I would!  With limited years left, I don't want to miss out on even one year!  Do I like it?  No! But it doesn't shock me at all that Montana is doing this.  Simple business model.  Raise the costs until applicant numbers and quota numbers become equal.  If you were selling hotdogs for a buck a piece and you sold out every day before lunch was half over, what would you do?  You would raise your prices to equal out demand and make you the most money for your time spent working.  Its called Capitalism.  Montana legislature and F&G do not answer to non-residents.  There constituents are the citizens of Montana.  Montana citizens should be demanding that they get top dollar for these tags to support the resource and to endure the pressure of non-resident hunters in the field.  Another thing to think about, who supports the businesses and hospitality industries the most during the hunting seasons?  The guy that packs his camper or truck and can barely afford the trip & tag or the guy with deep pockets and doesn't bat an eye on the cost increases?

I don't like to see this anymore than the rest of you but its like asking, which family gets to go to Disneyland? and which family gets to go to the state park 10 miles out of town?  I know this is going to tick off some of you and I understand, buts its just the way it is and there is not much we can do about it.  We will have to belly up to the bar ($$$$) or choose other options or hobby's.  All of the other states are doing the same thing or will be shortly.  Montana has watched Wyoming do this and has seen how successful it is for them.

How about us residents who have family and friends that are NR's? I lease a ranch in Montana , main reason I lease it is to enjoy time with my family and friends from out of state. I know these folks not only bring themselves but other folks who are non hunting, who visit cafe's, visit gift shops, stop at coffee houses, they spend quite a bit while visiting, generating more income for Montanan's.

[cbond3318]

Is the 300$ app fee non refundable? Man they’re being erratic 

[Stein]

Yeah, guides got cut out pretty quickly when they ran into resistance.  It should be obvious to anyone paying attention what is happening.

[MADMAX]

Ya think ?