Troubling Changes to Turkey Regulations - Call to Action - Comment Period

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

First off, take the time to do the survey and let your voice be heard. We will never all agree on a perfect utopia of regulations and rules but at least take the time to fill out the survey and comment as necessary.

WAC 220-416-010  Small game and other wildlife seasons and regulations: (Higher Limits, Elimination of Methow Fall, Extended Youth)
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/ots-29021.pdf

WAC 220-414-020  Unlawful methods for hunting – Firearms (Use of Rimfire and Handguns)
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/ots-28992.pdf

There are few changes proposed to the upcoming regulations in regards to turkey and I want to highlight a few. Mostly wanted to discuss WAC 220-416-010 because the second can already be found in a previous thread.

Much of the country is talking about dimensioning turkey populations and we are one of the few states that are flourishing. Yet these changes will put us right in line with the rest of the country. The problem is our state Wildlife Managers (and some public) see turkeys as nuisance and would like to do nothing more but make them go away. This is proven when it has been asked with support of private/not-for-profit funding (NWTF etc) to trap and transport birds and the state has said NO; we dont want them anywhere else and they are non-native. Yet we release thousands of pheasants every year across the state and (kind of) manage them? It has gone as far as offering to move turkeys to areas where turkeys already exist to bolster these flocks away from people and still WDFW says No.

We as turkey hunters are condoning this, encouraging this, and asking that we make turkey hunting as easy as possible and abundant as possible by agreeing with the proposed changes in WAC 220-416-010.

Why not take birds from Spokane county and supplement the flocks in the North Central counties they are now opening for fall seasons? Why not trap the birds that are nuisance in the Twisp/Methow valley and place them else where. Oh, that's right because WDFW does not want to manage turkeys, they want to eliminate them.

WA is blowing up on Youtube and we are the next Wisconson or TN whether or not we want to recognize this or not. Supporting changes like this and not demanding a trap and transplant program will guarantee that WA is a horrible place to turkey hunt in the next 5 years. This may not seam feasible to some because "they are everywhere" but we are talking about a state that has less than 50k birds and I've seen what has happened to states that have 300k+ birds and revered as much as deer.

We need to cut back on our fall harvest and we need to start managing turkeys in this state. It could legitimately become an economic cash cow for this state if we do so. We are getting too far ahead of ourselves. Turkey hunting in this state is great right now and it wont get any better unless we manage it properly. With the course WDFW is taking and with support of this change it can and will get much worse.

I'm all good if you support the youth season extension and it sucks its lumped with all the other season changes but PLEASE COMMENT THAT YOU DO NOT SUPPORT THE ADDITIONAL OPPORTYNITY OF TURKEY HUNTING IN THE SPRING AND FALL SEASONS. THAT YOU WOULD PREFER WDFW DO MORE TO MANAGE OUR TURKEY POPULATIONS WITH TRAP AND TRANSPLANT FROM OVER POPULATED AREAS TO UNDER POPULATED AREAS.

[KFhunter]

But I do support additional hunting...

I'd love to see them transplanted too and this is the problem with how WDFW makes these questions. 

They toss a little bait on a turd.

I clicked do not agree, not because I want less turkey hunting, but because banning centerfire rifles on grouse is stupid.

[hunter399]

But I do support additional hunting...

I'd love to see them transplanted too and this is the problem with how WDFW makes these questions. 

They toss a little bait on a turd.

I clicked do not agree, not because I want less turkey hunting, but because banning centerfire rifles on grouse is stupid.

Yes thats about right bait on a turd sums it up.
Not that I don't support your cause,
But WDFW IS not just lacking in the Turkey management department but the whole states in all species.
And I agree with management this state could be a great place to hunt ,piles of money for the state and overall health of our wildlife be better off than most states.But I hate to bust the bubble or the dream.Our wildlife is managed for greed,asset of the people that continually gets raped and pillaged every year until hunting is gone in the future. It's not managed for future generations and is what amount of money can we make today.
I'm sorry but I don't see it change anytime soon.
ITS DISGUSTING.

[Russ McDonald]

I will give you some incite.   We cavitation that just in turkey tags in 2019 the state made 100K.  That does not include small gane license or any of what turkey hunting brings to communities.  I sat in a meeting 5 years ago with the state and our NWTF bio to get the states turkey plan back on track.  That plan had expires 10 years at that time.  We got aa far as breaking out the trap and transport to make it an SOP.  All it needed was signed.  There was turn over with personel and it got lost.  The state has been trapping and relocating but I heard that they are moving them to places that have to many birds.  I sat in a meeting when these proposals came out with the state.  I can tell you that they are managing turkeys by nusiance and not much science.  In the last 5 years as the NWTF state president I have felt that I have been pounding my head on a brick wall.  In 2022 I mosy likely be stepping down as the president.   Not out just need my head to heal.  The last thing is most wildlife biologist in this star consider turkeys to be non native birds.  The biggest reason in my opnion that they don't want them around.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[Turkeyman]

I agree with everything you stated. WDFW don’t give a damn about turkeys. We went from 22 NWTF chapters in the late 90’s to 5 or 7 now. A lot of people got tired of beating their heads against the wall dealing with WDFW. Just like our fishing we are slowly loosing it all.

[Russ McDonald]

I agree with everything you stated. WDFW don’t give a damn about turkeys. We went from 22 NWTF chapters in the late 90’s to 5 or 7 now. A lot of people got tired of beating their heads against the wall dealing with WDFW. Just like our fishing we are slowly loosing it all.

6 now.  Upper Columbia/Colville,  Moses Lake, Yakima Basin/Yakima Klickitat, South Sound/Enumclaw, and Olympia/Puget Sound

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[callturner]

If they don't want them around then why $15.00 for a tag that's a lot for yard rats.

[dilleytech]

The state limit has been 3 birds for a long time correct? What’s the increase your against exactly? I can’t really understand that link.

[Russ McDonald]

The state limit has been 3 birds for a long time correct? What’s the increase your against exactly? I can’t really understand that link.

It has been only 2 birds for NE and SE GMU's.  1 bird on eastern Cascades amd 1 only on westside.  So here is where the 3 for the state comes from.  We have a WA slam Merriam in the NE and Rio Grande in the SE and Eastern in the west but you can still get 2 Merriams or 2 Rio's but still only 3 birds total.   Here is where it gets fun.   Say if you get a bird in east Cascades you are only allowed one more bird on the east side.   So the proposal goes they are wanting to increase the total to 3 birds in Spokane gmu only.   2 birds in Klickitat and Chelan only.  How that will go is you get your 3 birds in Spokane gmu your done on the east side and then you can get you eastern in the west side.   If I read it right.  But I am guessing that you will only be able get one bird in Klickitat one in Chelan and you will be done on east side.  This is going to be tricky writing that is for sure. Won't go into effect this spring though.  Going to be too late once the commision decides.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

The state limit has been 3 birds for a long time correct? What’s the increase your against exactly? I can’t really understand that link.

It has been only 2 birds for NE and SE GMU's.  1 bird on eastern Cascades amd 1 only on westside.  So here is where the 3 for the state comes from.  We have a WA slam Merriam in the NE and Rio Grande in the SE and Eastern in the west but you can still get 2 Merriams or 2 Rio's but still only 3 birds total.   Here is where it gets fun.   Say if you get a bird in east Cascades you are only allowed one more bird on the east side.   So the proposal goes they are wanting to increase the total to 3 birds in Spokane gmu only.   2 birds in Klickitat and Chelan only.  How that will go is you get your 3 birds in Spokane gmu your done on the east side and then you can get you eastern in the west side.   If I read it right.  But I am guessing that you will only be able get one bird in Klickitat one in Chelan and you will be done on east side.  This is going to be tricky writing that is for sure. Won't go into effect this spring though.  Going to be too late once the commission decides.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

In part what Russ is saying above but also opening the North Central in the Fall. There is to be a Methow permit hunt which they are dropping now and the only fall permit hunt will be the Teanaway. In addition to opening the Methow units to a general fall season they are opening up a whole lot more. The fall hunt is the population control hunt without question. You kill hens you kill the spread of turkeys. I didnt support the blanket change a few years ago when they open the SE to a 4 bird fall. The NE is the only place that can almost sustain this but still the liberalized the NE too a few years back.

So yes opposed to the its ok to take a "third" bird on the east side as long as one comes from 124 but also and more opposed to the Fall opening of the North Central region.

Russ - I think you can do one klickitat, one chelan, and one 124 still to pick up all 3 on the east side is how I read it.

But this in junction is my point. Why do we have one bird spring units that have a fall hunt. It doesnt add up. We are walking to thin of a line as far as turkey populations go. 5 years ago you could take 2 birds in the SE and 1 bird in the fall which makes since. 1 and 1 does not.

[dilleytech]

Seems odd they would reduce the klickitat limit to 1 when the population is continuing to grow. If anything give us a 3 bird limit in the klick.

[Wanttohuntmore]

Expand youth season and that's it.   Why screw up a good thing?

[Russ McDonald]

Seems odd they would reduce the klickitat limit to 1 when the population is continuing to grow. If anything give us a 3 bird limit in the klick.

Klickitat has always been 1 bird spring and last year was the first year for OTC fall hunt for 1 bird.  Prior the Klickitat was was permit draw only for fall.

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

Expand youth season and that's it.   Why screw up a good thing?

That's the short of what I am getting at! 

[Wanttohuntmore]

Turkey was about the only thing the WDFW hasn't screwed up.   They seem destined to try and fail.

[hunter399]

It's really just people complaining in 124 GMU .It happens all the time that regulations are set a little more loosely in higher populated areas to deal with property damage and nuisance calls. The same thing has been happening in 124 for deer the past 5 years,lots of antlerless tags given and there only starting to pull back on antlerless now populations have been declining for awhile.
I'm almost sure turkeys will be hit hard for many years in gmu 124 before it's pulled back.
But it happens all the time ,more cougar quotas,more antlerless tags,more Turkey tags. Anything else the general public will complain about.

[dilleytech]

Seems odd they would reduce the klickitat limit to 1 when the population is continuing to grow. If anything give us a 3 bird limit in the klick.

Klickitat has always been 1 bird spring and last year was the first year for OTC fall hunt for 1 bird.  Prior the Klickitat was was permit draw only for fall.

Incorrect, it’s a 2 bird spring limit.

[Special T]

The state limit has been 3 birds for a long time correct? What’s the increase your against exactly? I can’t really understand that link.

It has been only 2 birds for NE and SE GMU's.  1 bird on eastern Cascades amd 1 only on westside.  So here is where the 3 for the state comes from.  We have a WA slam Merriam in the NE and Rio Grande in the SE and Eastern in the west but you can still get 2 Merriams or 2 Rio's but still only 3 birds total.   Here is where it gets fun.   Say if you get a bird in east Cascades you are only allowed one more bird on the east side.   So the proposal goes they are wanting to increase the total to 3 birds in Spokane gmu only.   2 birds in Klickitat and Chelan only.  How that will go is you get your 3 birds in Spokane gmu your done on the east side and then you can get you eastern in the west side.   If I read it right.  But I am guessing that you will only be able get one bird in Klickitat one in Chelan and you will be done on east side.  This is going to be tricky writing that is for sure. Won't go into effect this spring though.  Going to be too late once the commision decides.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Do you think this change is influenced by the equipment change allowing rimfires? Do you think they are trying to mitigate or buffer percieved harvest?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[bigtex]

If they don't want them around then why $15.00 for a tag that's a lot for yard rats.

Well for one its because there's a limit on how many birds you can shoot in a year. Take that away and how do you know if the hunter has shot one bird this year or 50?

And of course there's the financial aspect. WDFW gets to bill some of their turkey work to the funds generated by the sale of the tags.

[Stein]

I think he means $15 a tag is pretty expensive, not that there shouldn't be tags.  MT is $6.50 if I remember right.

[Russ McDonald]

The state limit has been 3 birds for a long time correct? What’s the increase your against exactly? I can’t really understand that link.

It has been only 2 birds for NE and SE GMU's.  1 bird on eastern Cascades amd 1 only on westside.  So here is where the 3 for the state comes from.  We have a WA slam Merriam in the NE and Rio Grande in the SE and Eastern in the west but you can still get 2 Merriams or 2 Rio's but still only 3 birds total.   Here is where it gets fun.   Say if you get a bird in east Cascades you are only allowed one more bird on the east side.   So the proposal goes they are wanting to increase the total to 3 birds in Spokane gmu only.   2 birds in Klickitat and Chelan only.  How that will go is you get your 3 birds in Spokane gmu your done on the east side and then you can get you eastern in the west side.   If I read it right.  But I am guessing that you will only be able get one bird in Klickitat one in Chelan and you will be done on east side.  This is going to be tricky writing that is for sure. Won't go into effect this spring though.  Going to be too late once the commision decides.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Do you think this change is influenced by the equipment change allowing rimfires? Do you think they are trying to mitigate or buffer percieved harvest?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Nusiance birds is how they are justyfying any of this. They can increase the tags in Spokane GMU but most of the birds are in the city no hunting in the city.

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

[Wanttohuntmore]

Nuisance birds stay on private property for the most part.   If you complain about nuusance birds,  open your property up to more hunters.   There will always be complaints until they are all gone.

[Dave Workman]

I will give you some incite.   We cavitation that just in turkey tags in 2019 the state made 100K.  That does not include small gane license or any of what turkey hunting brings to communities.  I sat in a meeting 5 years ago with the state and our NWTF bio to get the states turkey plan back on track.  That plan had expires 10 years at that time.  We got aa far as breaking out the trap and transport to make it an SOP.  All it needed was signed.  There was turn over with personel and it got lost.  The state has been trapping and relocating but I heard that they are moving them to places that have to many birds.  I sat in a meeting when these proposals came out with the state.  I can tell you that they are managing turkeys by nusiance and not much science.  In the last 5 years as the NWTF state president I have felt that I have been pounding my head on a brick wall.  In 2022 I mosy likely be stepping down as the president.   Not out just need my head to heal.  The last thing is most wildlife biologist in this star consider turkeys to be non native birds.  The biggest reason in my opnion that they don't want them around.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

I've had that impression for several years. Ever since Dan beefed up the turkey program back in the 1980s. 
Interesting observations. Even with a "tapatalk" that is one to typos. 

[Russ McDonald]

I will give you some incite.   We cavitation that just in turkey tags in 2019 the state made 100K.  That does not include small gane license or any of what turkey hunting brings to communities.  I sat in a meeting 5 years ago with the state and our NWTF bio to get the states turkey plan back on track.  That plan had expires 10 years at that time.  We got aa far as breaking out the trap and transport to make it an SOP.  All it needed was signed.  There was turn over with personel and it got lost.  The state has been trapping and relocating but I heard that they are moving them to places that have to many birds.  I sat in a meeting when these proposals came out with the state.  I can tell you that they are managing turkeys by nusiance and not much science.  In the last 5 years as the NWTF state president I have felt that I have been pounding my head on a brick wall.  In 2022 I mosy likely be stepping down as the president.   Not out just need my head to heal.  The last thing is most wildlife biologist in this star consider turkeys to be non native birds.  The biggest reason in my opnion that they don't want them around.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

I've had that impression for several years. Ever since Dan beefed up the turkey program back in the 1980s. 
Interesting observations. Even with a "tapatalk" that is one to typos. 

Damn typing on a phone is working 💪. 

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[bearpaw]

The way I understand it a major problem in the NE is nuisance birds on private property so I'm assuming that's part of the problem in other areas of the state. Because of complaints WDFW want to reduce turkey populations. What is frustrating, they open the whole area to fall either sex harvest and the hunters on public land push all the birds onto private land where in many cases hunting isn't allowed. If WDFW had even half a clue, they would open the fall season only on private property, the hunting pressure on private property would push the birds onto public lands where they are not a nuisance to landowners. The landowners who don't allow hunting would have to put up with the birds only because of their own choice of not allowing hunting.

I guess that would just be too simple for WDFW? 

[PA BEN]

I know of land owners who never had a Turkey on their land until  trap and transport took place in the 90's. They are pissed at the game dept for bring Turkeys to their hood.

[walt]

  More than a few land owners.  To me they are a nuisance.  My vote would be to harvest 3/day, either sex, with a small game license, open to any method of take.  I could have whacked one with a stick in my driveway this morning.