WEST SIDE BIRDS?

[mtnseth]

Cool photo Tom Tamer.  And congrats to your dad on taking a bird.  As we all know, any legal bird on the west side is a trophy.  I would have gladly taken a jake when I got my tom this year.  Just happened it was a mature tom that came in.  Sounds like you guys are in the money and just need the right combo of luck and persistence to notch a tag on old toad.  I wonder how many thousands of guys are trying to pinpoint your location from the hills in the background of your dad's pic?  I know I was! 

As far as coloration, I showed a guy a pic of my eastern and he swore it was a Rio.  He grew up in Missouri hunting easterns but now lives in MT and chases Merriams, and he's hunted turkeys from Hawaii to Florida.  My bird is darker than your dad's for sure, but not quite the dark chestnut I expected.  On the other hand, my Merriam this year didn't have an inch of white on his fan.  He looked more like a Rio.  Go figure. 

On the other hand, there is a dude on TC Road that has three of white-tipped domestic toms on his property.  They aren't fenced in, either, so who knows what kind of effect they could have on the gene pool in terms of coloration?  They just walk the road gobbling.  I should know because I about ran off the road one day when I spotted them for the first time!  With as many hunters as there are in that area, my money is somebody tags at least one of those farm turkeys this season! 

Eastern:

Merriam:

[washingtonmuley]

Seth,
Nice Bird!!!!!!

[turkeydancer]

      Fantastic ... well earned and done !!!!

[Tom Tamer]

No doubt on the feat, I just spent two days getting my backside handed to me more ways than I can count.....damn hard bird even when you know where they are and what they're doing

Right now at least my area they're so henned up they ain't even gobbling on the roost, then to make matters worse, they hens aren't setting the nest yet, so if a tom does gobble about noon or so they're quickly snatched up by the nearset WHORE

 This morning while trekking to a new spot after sitting form 4:30AM til 10am in a clear cut that held a Gobbler and a Jake all day yesterday, which for the first time in four days of hunting they took today off from that spot I walked up a hill only to bump three nice Long beards that ran as fast and as far as they could.

 Now I'm heading to the Blues in hopes to gather one for a Multi year slam and to regain some of my calling confidence

 But I'll be back, Wacent I see what is said about them being reclusive. We're the only folks who've ever hunted in there and just our little bit of running around scatters them quickly. And we've only bumped a couple and had one gun shot. And they clean out.

 The other thing that amazes me about Easterns is the fact( at least our flock) the Maturity of a Jake, it's like they get sent to a class on (how to become a four year old turkey) They don't act like normal jakes, they won't venture out too much away form the flock when calling , they don't go raoming around terrorizing the neighbor hood or any typical Jakeiness at all. And heck I know toad is there with about 4 or five other longbeards but I don't mind popping a Jake.

It's time to let the place rest and get some of those DAMN WHORES off to nest then maybe they start acting like good responsible death wishing turkeys

Mtnseth, But yours has the true Chestnut secondary tail feathers, I think the color difference is just a gene, like our hair color. Last year the wife and I basically shot two brother Jakes, almost standing side by side and they have distinctly different tails

 We've seen a couple hens in this spot with buff tipped tails also, I got lucky back in '06 my Eastern is completely chestnut tail.

And I'll say this on the Locale, it's not very far from everyone else, and these are all Johnson creek strain birds....they just moved a little north....or was it south.....no wait I think west......naw how bout east of there Sorry guys I could tell you but then my Dad would kill me and hang my beard form the wall

[turkeydancer]

MtnSeth ... Student now teacher !!!

TN - Keep the faith ... dancers plan for success: have a beer, go harvest a Rio, have a beer, go harvest a merriam, have a beer, go harvest an eastern (or at least by this time you won't care as much).     

[Tom Tamer]

MtnSeth ... Student now teacher !!!

TN - Keep the faith ... dancers plan for success: have a beer, go harvest a Rio, have a beer, go harvest a merriam, have a beer, go harvest an eastern (or at least by this time you won't care as much).     

Doc Dancer..you don't mind if I subsitute Knob creek for beer do ya? It goe's down smoother and is quicker to my brain But yo bet I'll take two or three or four and call ya in the morning

[yelp]

A buddy of mine found some hens yesterday..and he heard a tom gobble twice...HE is going to let me know how he does...half the battle is finding them..

[strutnrut1984]

they are tough to find but they are here.

[Tom Tamer]

Tough... can be an understatement, Yelp, Wac and others that know more than me, do you guys find hunting Easterns that they don't do a whole lot of clucking and purring, I noticed that plain yelps almost draw a better response. Like I previously posted when I cluck& purred at that Jake you'd thought I shot at him, my thought is this, since the brush can be so dense they just refuse to broadcast their whereabouts anymore than thy have to for fear of what's lurking nearby and they can't see very well at all in that cover?

That and any subordinate tom or Jake sure does'nt take much interest in anything other than what they see, several time's I've seen multiple Males near a lone hen and do you think any of the lesser birds even think of investigating......HECK NO!

 You sure we bought these birds from Iowa and not Pluto

 

[Wacenturion]

TT....they don't vocalize much, at least that's been my experience.  As you stated, and I have stated before on other threads.....these birds seem more paranoid than the other two subspecies....your statement is accurate in my opinion...

           "my thought is this, since the brush can be so dense they just refuse to broadcast their whereabouts anymore than thy have to for fear of what's lurking nearby and they can't see very well at all in that cover?"

Because of the dense understory they inhabit, they (the Easterns) rely more on their hearing than their vision.  The birds you are hunting.....Johnson Creek and surrounding area came initially from Pa.....mid 80's, then a mixing of some Missouri birds a couple years later....late 80's.......then a another genetic introduction on top of that in the late 90's from Iowa.  No birds from Pluto..... 

What is unique is that these new generations of Easterns produced since those releases are true bred and born in western Washington turkeys, that have adapted to this dense Pacific NW habitat.....and probably developed their own unique alien like traits....lol.


 

[merlo105]

I have hunted Easterns all over the US and they cluck and purr just as much as any other bird i hunted. Only thing I could say about that Jake is that he has been hunted and spooked off or what not. maybe your clucks and purrs are not so well... This time of year I like to be alittle more quiet and get out even earlier Find the bird give a couple tree yelps then some soft clucks and purrs and alot of the time thats all it takes... I like really raspy calls for Easterns, cutters are really handy, I was out hunting the west side two weeks ago and the only birds I could get going and came in were hens I got them yelping and just gave them some cutts next thing you know she was with in 3 feet for probably 15 minutes just hung around and clucked her head off. So there it is they cluck and purr alot... Plus the raspy calls seem to shoot threw the woods alittle better then a double reed plain yelping....

[Wacenturion]

Forgot to mention above.....part of the reason the Easterns seem to vocalize less is the difficulty in hearing those vocalizations because of the dense understory one is hunting them in.....it literally eats sounds.  To clarify my statement above....they don't seem to vocalize as much as the other two subspecies, but yes they vocalize like other wild turkeys if you are close enough to hear them. 

[Tom Tamer]

Merlo it's not the hunting pressure, my Dad and myself are the only ones to ever hunt this flock in four years....that we can tell. And no offense but I don't think it;s my calling, I've placed no worse than third in any event locally I've tired. And usually with Merriams they die for my clucking and purring

 I think it is the underbrush and the Paranoia of these birds, after I posted that last question I did recall they would pound my clucking from the roost, so it's probably a little of the underbrush deadening the sound and their defenses holding me back.

[turkeydancer]

Not your calling TN (2007 state champ) ... found that they will fire up, but best to calm it down and less frequent ... use their natural curiosity and sex drive.  If that doesn't work, naplam them.  

[Wacenturion]

Spoke with two people in Lewis County that either raised and released wild turkeys in recent years.  Based on this, they could have released any variety if the release was not coordinated with the state.

First of all if it were coordinated with the state it would not have happened.......it is illegal to release game farm stock turkey in Washington, even on your own property.  These individuals who do this pose a huge threat to your wild turkey resource.  Introduction of potential disease problems and nuisance problems from neighbors...which gives real turkeys a black eye.  Also potential hybridization with local birds....which is less probable with Easterns than say Merriam's or Rio's due to possible interaction during certain times of the year.

This practice also leads to false speculation as to using different subspecies in areas as folks tend to think that since they are there they would do better than what was originally releasesd by WDFW.  They don't realize what they really are....tame game farm birds.  Some examples are North Bend (appear to be Merriams), La Conner (Merriams or Eastern stock), Twisp area ranch (Easterns) and years ago on the Cowlitz (Merriams)......all were released game farm stock....and tame.

This releases should be reported to WDFW and insist that they correct the problem....with fines and make the individuals confine, destroy, or do whatever with the birds.