RMEF in Washington state

[Stein]

Here is a list of all the projects, you can see exactly what they do:

https://www.rmef.org/where-we-conserve/

[LDennis24]

The last sentence is the part I don't like with this sort of thing. I wonder, do they have a clause written somewhere that says WDFW can never sell that parcel or develope it? Obviously we all know how the WDFW operates and they could easily screw this up. And we are clearly gonna be better off with it being public land than private. Much like the Plum creek area. I wasn't aware of that being a project by RMEF.

[Stein]

I know RMEF has a policy of trying to not hold land which makes sense from a financial perspective, it would eventually consume their entire budget just in taxes and maintenance.  They usually are the go-between facilitating the purchase and transfer to public land almost exclusively to state game agencies.

I agree about the WDFW thing, seeing what they are doing to the state land that use to be excellent waterfowl and hunting habitat, but there would also be dangers with a private entity holding tons of great habitat as well.

Either way, certainly better than it being sold to one of the huge private landowners that lock hunters out of land and access to other public land.

[Rainier10]

This is the one in the colockum that I referenced in the other thread when @LDennis24 asked what the RMEF actually did. They did a huge land swap that removed a bunch of checkerboard private land and opened up state land that was blocked by private.

[dvolmer]

Thanks for all the info guys!  Ill check it out.  Like I said, I dont know much about them so I will do the research.

[Special T]

I think organizations Like RMEF do a good job at their mission. Conservation work revolving around Elk. It's good work and needs to be done.

The problem I have with RMEF and most other critter orgs is that they portray they are more than they are. They are not a hunter advocacy organization, ad yet I have asked many sportsmen if they belong to one. When they reply that they belong to say DU I asked what made them think they advocate for sportsmen? Mostly they don't know why they think this. The fact is it's part of the marketing and fundraising strategy... Additionally sportsmensupply companies mainly support conservation critter groups BECAUSE they don't political and are "safe" for say Cabellas to attach thier name to.

If I could make one change it would be changing the way sportsmen understood who is actually fighting for them.

[NumaJohn]

I take your good points, Special T, and so I am not offering this link as any sort of rebuttal but rather as an FYI:

https://www.rmef.org/elk-network/enhancedmissionstatement/

John

[Maybach Outdoors]

Great thread. I'll be following along

[bearpaw]

If I could make one change it would be changing the way sportsmen understood who is actually fighting for them.

  Comment of the day right there!

[Special T]

I take your good points, Special T, and so I am not offering this link as any sort of rebuttal but rather as an FYI:

https://www.rmef.org/elk-network/enhancedmissionstatement/

John

The work in that release is benificial and good for sportsmen. I did not see where it defined hunting heritage, although I will assume it revolves around hunter recruitment.

Critter conservation groups all have a very similar business model and with slight variation I think you can insert your favorite animal and the operate stunningly similar. Buy, land, easements, access... provide education, instruction and partner with sporting good companies and product manufacturers. Raise money via auctions and banquets. It's a proven model and it works.

The fact that RMEF lost so many members over not getting involved on the wolf issue proves they are not an advocacy organization. The large number that left the Org is proof that membership believed RMEF was.   I don't say this to pick on RMEF.  I just know this to be true because I have a critter organization I love to hate, and learned the hard way. The facts I am now expressing were from lots of conversations and reading.

By all means support RMEF or whom ever... They won't however help sportsmen deal with the WDFW or legislators...

[Rainier10]

Jack,
I am currently and have been a member of RMEF for 20+ years.
Although I am not an active participant in the organization, it is my belief that they (we?) provide focus on elk and the other associated wildlife that benefits from a healthy elk population.  They do purchase large and small tracts of land that directly benefits elk and also undertake enhancement programs such as controlled burns, old fence removal and dig/construct guzzler wells/tanks which help minimize elk having to cross certain roads for water, etc.

As for the political aspect, I had an interesting discussion while in Omak about 10 years ago with a RMEF bigwig, he explained that although the RMEF is generally against the wolf reintroduction, they choose not to actively engage in the fight due to the legal costs involved with being countersued, etc.  They have a limited budget and the pro-wolf activists know it, by suing, they can tie up the money that RMEF uses for enhancement, which is really the purpose of the organization.

As a side note, if we as a hunting advocacy group could all get on the same page and be as organized as the bark eaters and PETA, we could raise more money and lobby to advance our agenda.  Sadly, like most of you, I am to busy trying to make a living while the bark eaters are living off unemployment and welfare.

Anyways, RMEF is in my opinion a very worthy organization.
Thanks for your concern.

Rob.

I think the bold red is the main reason they don't get into the wolf or any political issue for that matter.  Pick your fights and pick the areas you can get the most bang for your buck.

[Stein]

I think organizations Like RMEF do a good job at their mission. Conservation work revolving around Elk. It's good work and needs to be done.

The problem I have with RMEF and most other critter orgs is that they portray they are more than they are. They are not a hunter advocacy organization, ad yet I have asked many sportsmen if they belong to one. When they reply that they belong to say DU I asked what made them think they advocate for sportsmen? Mostly they don't know why they think this. The fact is it's part of the marketing and fundraising strategy... Additionally sportsmensupply companies mainly support conservation critter groups BECAUSE they don't political and are "safe" for say Cabellas to attach thier name to.

If I could make one change it would be changing the way sportsmen understood who is actually fighting for them.

It's both, not either or, you need the privilege to hunt as well as animals to hunt.  I think RMEF has been doing a good job at helping the health of elk herds as well as access to them.

From my perspective, access and available animals are clearly the big battle right now.  Public land gets increasingly crowded, private interests lock up access and I believe access to hunting areas is the number one reason people quit hunting according to surveys (or top 3 for sure). 

In WA, it's even more important as WDFW destroys their huntable land and timber companies make it harder and more expensive to gain access.  Where do the new hunters go?  Where do the old hunters go for that matter?  Once land gets locked up, it's nearly impossible to undo that.

I would rather they do that than flush money down the drain fighting losing battles in this state.  You aren't going to win in Olympia or with WDFW, so put the effort where it will result in impact and wins.  Why waste money losing in the legislature, losing in the courts, losing with the department?  The other state agencies are working the wolf issue through the court system and it will take time and money and I don't see RMEF as playing a big part there.

I will say I'm not impressed with their past support and silence on the MT outfitter tags, but that puts them in a tight spot splitting their membership.

Either way, they have done a huge number of things for hunters and it's impossible to make everyone happy.

[Special T]

Jack,
I am currently and have been a member of RMEF for 20+ years.
Although I am not an active participant in the organization, it is my belief that they (we?) provide focus on elk and the other associated wildlife that benefits from a healthy elk population.  They do purchase large and small tracts of land that directly benefits elk and also undertake enhancement programs such as controlled burns, old fence removal and dig/construct guzzler wells/tanks which help minimize elk having to cross certain roads for water, etc.

As for the political aspect, I had an interesting discussion while in Omak about 10 years ago with a RMEF bigwig, he explained that although the RMEF is generally against the wolf reintroduction, they choose not to actively engage in the fight due to the legal costs involved with being countersued, etc.  They have a limited budget and the pro-wolf activists know it, by suing, they can tie up the money that RMEF uses for enhancement, which is really the purpose of the organization.

As a side note, if we as a hunting advocacy group could all get on the same page and be as organized as the bark eaters and PETA, we could raise more money and lobby to advance our agenda.  Sadly, like most of you, I am to busy trying to make a living while the bark eaters are living off unemployment and welfare.

Anyways, RMEF is in my opinion a very worthy organization.
Thanks for your concern.

Rob.

I think the bold red is the main reason they don't get into the wolf or any political issue for that matter.  Pick your fights and pick the areas you can get the most bang for your buck.

I belive that the red highlight is the official narrative.  I belive the real reason is the politics interfears with the business model. Most corporate businesses don't want to  get involved with the predator or political debates. Habitat is warm and fuzzy. While habitat is important, advocating for proper management  is political is messy. Habitat won't get us where sportsmen want to go on its own.  Sportsmen need to step into the ring.

[idaho guy]

 I was an avid supporter of rmef but got pissed when they did not take a stand on the wolf issues early on and really wondered why they were spending so much time and money re-introducing elk to kentucky,pennsylvania etc when elk were struggling in traditional elk states like Idaho etc. I quit supporting them altogether. I was wrong on both accounts and I can appreciate where they were coming from on both wolves and the Elk re introductions have been a huge success story. I'm back being a strong supporter beyond membership and buying tables and the like at banquets. I agree with special t and I was just confused on what their mission is and what my dollars are really going towards. I am going to become a member of an advocacy group like SCI also. I actually knew one of the guys who started the rmef when I was living in Montana and its cool how it got started and they have accomplished a lot. I still don't see them doing as much in Idaho as I would like but I think its because I am probably not paying attention 

[Special T]

I think organizations Like RMEF do a good job at their mission. Conservation work revolving around Elk. It's good work and needs to be done.

The problem I have with RMEF and most other critter orgs is that they portray they are more than they are. They are not a hunter advocacy organization, ad yet I have asked many sportsmen if they belong to one. When they reply that they belong to say DU I asked what made them think they advocate for sportsmen? Mostly they don't know why they think this. The fact is it's part of the marketing and fundraising strategy... Additionally sportsmensupply companies mainly support conservation critter groups BECAUSE they don't political and are "safe" for say Cabellas to attach thier name to.

If I could make one change it would be changing the way sportsmen understood who is actually fighting for them.

It's both, not either or, you need the privilege to hunt as well as animals to hunt.  I think RMEF has been doing a good job at helping the health of elk herds as well as access to them.

From my perspective, access and available animals are clearly the big battle right now.  Public land gets increasingly crowded, private interests lock up access and I believe access to hunting areas is the number one reason people quit hunting according to surveys (or top 3 for sure). 

In WA, it's even more important as WDFW destroys their huntable land and timber companies make it harder and more expensive to gain access.  Where do the new hunters go?  Where do the old hunters go for that matter?  Once land gets locked up, it's nearly impossible to undo that.

 I would rather they do that than flush money down the drain fighting losing battles in this state.  You aren't going to win in Olympia or with WDFW, so put the effort where it will result in impact and wins.  Why waste money losing in the legislature, losing in the courts, losing with the department?  The other state agencies are working the wolf issue through the court system and it will take time and money and I don't see RMEF as playing a big part there.

I will say I'm not impressed with their past support and silence on the MT outfitter tags, but that puts them in a tight spot splitting their membership.

Either way, they have done a huge number of things for hunters and it's impossible to make everyone happy.

Critter habitat orgs are a tool, nothing more or less. You cannot use a screwdriver to accomplish all tasks, you need other tools in the belt. You do not make large gains fixing a problem by increasing the efficiency of something that already works well. You work on improving the weak link. RMEF isnt broken. Adding additional time and resources isn't bad, but won't fix the problem.

Please forgive me for picking on you. Your statement in red is why we loose. You are unwilling to support the underdog, you only want to support a winning horse. The Animal Rights crowd will accept many of the things "you" wont. Fight the good fight, accept defeat and wear it like a badge, consider incremental changes a win..  these statements are illustrative, not a personal attack...

I am much like you in so far as I would like to just focus on hunting, teaching my kids and everything else. Sadly that is not reality. Some have chosen to give Time to fight the good fight. My comments are mostly to draw the line clearly so those that want to support advocacy have an idea who they are/Are not.