Elk couldn't escape fire

[jstone]

Just like they let them smolder for weeks then they take off and create havoc.

[Naches Sportsman]

It's awful, I was hesitant to even post the animal but it is what it is and people should see what happens when you don't practice proper forestry health and fire abatement. It's sickening even. I have been places and seen so many downed trees crisscrossing a hillside that nothing can get through but a squirrel. This needs to stop.

Logging helps with thinning out the canopy, but unless there's a magical chill pill to feed people in the west to stop hating on burning, not much will change.

Can go back east and people often ask when you're going to burn behind their backyard next. Should be like that in the west coast with those same thoughts as ponderosa pine forests aren't much different.

Way too many years suppressing fires (both lightning and human) messed up the landscape and destroyed historic fire return intervals in many places.

I've talked to a few state and U.S. Legislators across both party lines about this issue in the last year. Last one I talked to was last week after they opened their property gate for me to get closer to a small lightning fire.  The Republicans I talked with about fire are slowly changing their stances on prescribed fire as more and more peer-reviewed studies come out. Some of them are actually supportive of paying the guys and gals who fight fire a liveable wage for once and support year round positions that will entail fuels reduction in the United States in the winters which many people know is lacking.

[bobdog86]

In the old days, loggers were the first ones on the fires….if the forest burned, there livelihood was in jeopardy. Response was quicker, equipment was handy, and they new what they were doing. Now days there’s multiple agencies, response times are often slower.

[KFhunter]

Look like a moonscape, like the stickpin, it sanitized the soil.

[Oh Mah]

Were gonna see a lot more of this since they started putting these new fences in all over the state.i saw at least 50 deer burned up in the Wenas all lying dead in front of the new fences.

[hunter399]

I do agree with most of the posts above..........

They need to bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) and offer great paying jobs to young citizens of this country. With training included . I would never put DNR,Forest Service in charge of year round fuel reduction.
DNR,Forest circus can continue there current fuel reduction contracts and still do what they currently do.

They could start CCC very easily to start punching in New roads ,Fire lines,Thinning,Burning slash,Road Brushing, all the while giving training ,CDL,Heavy Equipment,Tree Falling,all the while giving young American a honest days work for a good wage.
The only requirements be 18-28 years of age.
Crew Foremans ,and supervisor would be the only older people getting jobs.
Alot of government agencies are to quick to put a contract out to have certain work done. These would be full time jobs
For the government with great pay and benefits till your 28 years old. Get them there fire fighting card and you have a Reserve fire fighting force.
They could have a CCC crew for every Ranger district in the state. Hire local people for each crew.

Our public forests have been not kept in any condition to withstand the heat and fire conditions we are starting to have.
I would like to see a new government department started back up. Instead of giving the forest service or DNR given more money. Something that focuses on training,good pay, to young people. Instead of putting out more contracts.

[elkboy]

It's awful, I was hesitant to even post the animal but it is what it is and people should see what happens when you don't practice proper forestry health and fire abatement. It's sickening even. I have been places and seen so many downed trees crisscrossing a hillside that nothing can get through but a squirrel. This needs to stop.

Logging helps with thinning out the canopy, but unless there's a magical chill pill to feed people in the west to stop hating on burning, not much will change.

Can go back east and people often ask when you're going to burn behind their backyard next. Should be like that in the west coast with those same thoughts as ponderosa pine forests aren't much different.

Way too many years suppressing fires (both lightning and human) messed up the landscape and destroyed historic fire return intervals in many places.

I've talked to a few state and U.S. Legislators across both party lines about this issue in the last year. Last one I talked to was last week after they opened their property gate for me to get closer to a small lightning fire.  The Republicans I talked with about fire are slowly changing their stances on prescribed fire as more and more peer-reviewed studies come out. Some of them are actually supportive of paying the guys and gals who fight fire a liveable wage for once and support year round positions that will entail fuels reduction in the United States in the winters which many people know is lacking.

Very much agree.  Also agree with hunter399 on a new version of the CCC. 

We need to release the stranglehold our state Department of Ecology has on smoke emissions from prescribed fire.  The biomass that could burn at lower severity for a few days during a prescribed fire event will generate a lot more particulate/smoke when it burns during extreme conditions.  I understand the concern on the part of people with compromised health conditions, but we're going to get smoke, like it or not- the questions become "when" and "how much". 

I am part of a prescribed fire cooperative in neighboring Idaho, and we burned several different units this spring (March-April 2021) to create defensible space from a valley bottom to the ridge top (see attached photo as example).  In my opinion, we need a lot of watershed-level prescribed fire cooperatives that involve all landowners, public and private.  We need to have a lot more people going through S130/S190 training (firefighter 2, or "red card") so they can assist during extreme conditions.  Paying wildland firefighters a living wage and creating more fire/fuel management positions in public agencies, as suggested above, are also part of the solution. 

Final thought- a lot of acreage needs to be thinned to reduce the Douglas-fir/grand fir component, and favor ponderosa pine (western larch at higher elevations), based on what the stand conditions were pre-1920 or so. 

     

[Moose Master]

Are you ready to pay more for access and permits to bolster the forest service budgets.

Let me guess they have plenty of money and resources to do the job needed.

I for one am willing to contribute more.  They have way more land to manage than budget.

[Alan K]

Are you ready to pay more for access and permits to bolster the forest service budgets.

Let me guess they have plenty of money and resources to do the job needed.

I for one am willing to contribute more.  They have way more land to manage than budget.

The Forest Service has billions and billions of dollars in timber that they don't harvest. Their funding woes are entirely self inflicted when they're sitting on an enormous amount of job creating, dollar generating resources that they won't tap. Instead we pay millions upon millions every year fighting fire and watching the resource go up in smoke. A lot of these could be put out sooner too, but they tear out roads left and right, not only shutting off the public from accessing large swaths of the forest, but also crippling response time to these fires.  They are really a dumpster fire of an agency.

[Moose Master]

Also agree with. 399 and elkboy comments

[Naches Sportsman]

Are you ready to pay more for access and permits to bolster the forest service budgets.

Let me guess they have plenty of money and resources to do the job needed.

I for one am willing to contribute more.  They have way more land to manage than budget.

The Forest Service has billions and billions of dollars in timber that they don't harvest. Their funding woes are entirely self inflicted when they're sitting on an enormous amount of job creating, dollar generating resources that they won't tap. Instead we pay millions upon millions every year fighting fire and watching the resource go up in smoke. A lot of these could be put out sooner too, but they tear out roads left and right, not only shutting off the public from accessing large swaths of the forest, but also crippling response time to these fires.  They are really a dumpster fire of an agency.

A bunch of the fires I respond to these days are with a UTV. Engine sits idle far far away. Only so much a chainsaw and a shovel can do to keep a road open. Spend most of the time these days clearing roads and culverts that used to be cleared by roads crews and logging contractors, but now days you're lucky to see a roads person or crew anywhere!

[Alan K]

Exactly. All roads could be kept open, and maintenance paid for with timber dollars but they just won't log. A single large timber sale a year on the GP (without the crazy restrictions they cram their contracts full of) with a DNR style contract could pay for the routine maintenance for the entire forest for the year. They've let their road systems deteriorate to the point it would be more than that now to get things back in shape. It wouldn't be tough they just have to want to.

[Moose Master]

Are you ready to pay more for access and permits to bolster the forest service budgets.

Let me guess they have plenty of money and resources to do the job needed.

I for one am willing to contribute more.  They have way more land to manage than budget.

The Forest Service has billions and billions of dollars in timber that they don't harvest. Their funding woes are entirely self inflicted when they're sitting on an enormous amount of job creating, dollar generating resources that they won't tap. Instead we pay millions upon millions every year fighting fire and watching the resource go up in smoke. A lot of these could be put out sooner too, but they tear out roads left and right, not only shutting off the public from accessing large swaths of the forest, but also crippling response time to these fires.  They are really a dumpster fire of an agency.

A bunch of the fires I respond to these days are with a UTV. Engine sits idle far far away. Only so much a chainsaw and a shovel can do to keep a road open. Spend most of the time these days clearing roads and culverts that used to be cleared by roads crews and logging contractors, but now days you're lucky to see a roads person or crew anywhere!

Thanks for the info and your work.

[Naches Sportsman]

Are you ready to pay more for access and permits to bolster the forest service budgets.

Let me guess they have plenty of money and resources to do the job needed.

I for one am willing to contribute more.  They have way more land to manage than budget.

The Forest Service has billions and billions of dollars in timber that they don't harvest. Their funding woes are entirely self inflicted when they're sitting on an enormous amount of job creating, dollar generating resources that they won't tap. Instead we pay millions upon millions every year fighting fire and watching the resource go up in smoke. A lot of these could be put out sooner too, but they tear out roads left and right, not only shutting off the public from accessing large swaths of the forest, but also crippling response time to these fires.  They are really a dumpster fire of an agency.

A bunch of the fires I respond to these days are with a UTV. Engine sits idle far far away. Only so much a chainsaw and a shovel can do to keep a road open. Spend most of the time these days clearing roads and culverts that used to be cleared by roads crews and logging contractors, but now days you're lucky to see a roads person or crew anywhere!

Thanks for the info and your work.

I'll have to add onto Alan K's last sentence. The Forest Circus really is a dumpster fire. Losing thousands of fire people alone to other federal agencies, or state, county, and city departments due to the lack of care for its fire employees for the lack of pay and the lack of year round funding. Lots of folks do want to work year round, but see better opportunity. I am currently looking for a way out myself.

Starts with the elected officials, the secretary of the USDA/DOI, on down to the people working in Washington. This administration is getting a lot of pressure to change the perception, but I currently hold no hope anything will happen. I love talking to old timers and other folks while I'm out and about, and they can see it through their eyes as well where the problem lies-Washington D.C.