You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds....

[Branden]

Branden
I would think you may be on the wrong forum if your main concern is humane treatment of animals.  We as hunters shoot animals, we try to shoot well but some die right away, some crawl off and die, some have a slow and painful recovery. This is reality. 


Coyotes chew the hind quarters on deer until they bleed to death, this too is reality. There is nothing humane or pretty when it comes to predators or life of animals in the natural world. It is pretty much an "eat" or "be eaten" world and if you think otherwise you are severely mislead by too many disney movies. If a dog catches a coyote and kills it, so what.........that dog has done nothing to the coyote that the same coyote has not done a hundred times himself.

Coyote Hunting with dogs is as diverse as bird hunting with dogs. Coyote hunting with dogs is no more inhumane than bird hunting with dogs since the dogs catch and kill some of the birds, no more inhumane than fishing where worms are skewed on a hook and fish suffocate to death when taken out of water or they are beaten on the head with a miniture baseball bat, no more inhumane than throwing a live lobster or other shellfish in boiling water, and definitely no more inhumane than the treatment any wildlife prey recieves from a coyote.

Someone had asked how dogs hunt coyotes earlier, I will post this again?? While there may be another type of dog I am not familiar with, this covers most types.

Decoy Dogs - These dogs are trained to run out a couple hundred yards or so, get the attention of the coyote, and run back to the owner, who hopefully can hit the ensueing coyote. I have never heard of a decoy dog killing a coyote.

Hounds - These dogs pursue a coyote in much the same way as pursuing a bear, except the coyote usually has more endurance than most dogs, and even most bear. Because the coyote generally makes very large circles, the hunter can figure out where to hopefully ambush the coyote for an effective shot. Hounds generally pursue and sometimes bay coyotes there are a few dogs that may kill one but it is not the usual method of kill.

Beagles - Some guys like using beagles or similar small dogs. The chase is usually slower and coyotes will often run a smaller circle. Same method, the hunter tries to get himself into a good ambush spot hoping for a shot. I have never heard of a beagle killing a coyote.

Catch Dogs - These are often greyhounds or a similar type dog. They have great eyesight and speed. The hunter must first locate a coyote that the dogs can get sight of, they then have a chance of catching the coyote and killing it.

First your list is mostly smoke screens and you know it. And since you think its fine to use hounds to kill coyotes then do you think its fine to use them to kill deer and elk?

Scenario.
Grandpa and I are driving along. He sees a patch of timber he thinks deer would be in. I jump out and still hunt it for two hours and finally shoot a deer in the timber patch. Get it all loaded in the truck and away we go.
Now who is the hunter? Grandpa or me? Same as hunting coyotes with hounds.

[stumprat]

Branden,
His list is not smoke screens. That is how it's done. The people down south that still hunt deer with dogs ambush them. They are hunted with hounds just like rabbits are hunted with beagles. The dogs run the deer and the hunters sit in likely ambush points. The dogs do NOT catch and kill the deer. As for Coyote hunting with dogs, you do not seem to know what you are talking about. In most cases they are run much the same way. Or with decoys. Catch and kill hunting with sight hound is not a widely practiced sport in the U.S., but some people do it. Mainly in the Southwest, and Midwest.

 Before you get on your high horse you should educate yourself a little more. I find your hunting scenario laughable as that is how many young people get thier deer.
After reading your posts on this site I often wonder why you visit a hunting site.

What method or means do you hunt with if at all? I have read your previous posts wanting that question answered first, so here it goes. I hunt for deer and elk using a muzzleloader, grouse with a shotgun or .22, I also predator call with a .223 or 12 guage. I also fly fish avidly. And apologize to no one!

My hounds were sold a couple years ago because the people of this great state deemed that they knew what was good for me(some hunters included). My hope is that with the many recent Bear sightings in the seattle area these people will rethink thier decisions.

So I answered the question of my chosen hunting methods, Your turn.

[Justin C.]

Bearpaw, I agree with you that there are plenty of instances in hunting and fishing situations where things don't go as humanely as we would like. I do think though that we should do everything we can to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. If I were to wound an animal I would definitely not just say oh well that is just part of the sport.

The topic of this thread is You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds... I don't see what using a decoy dog has to do with that. If the decoy method is covered under the same law then that sucks. That seems like a very good way to hunt coyotes and I would love to see it done.

I hunt birds with pointing dogs and I don't feel that it is it anything like hound hunting. If we have a dog that tries to chase or catch the birds then we have some more training to do. I also don't think all kinds of hound hunting are bad.

I will say that if there is a problem coyote that is going after livestock or causing some other problems the law about hound hunting them should not apply.

One last thought for now.....I think we should all be concerned about the humane treatment of animals and do everything we can to keep our hunting methods as ethical as we can.

[stumprat]

Bearpaw, I agree with you that there are plenty of instances in hunting and fishing situations where things don't go as humanely as we would like. I do think though that we should do our everything we can to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. If I were to wound an animal I would definitely not just say oh well that is just part of the sport.

The topic of this thread is You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds... I don't see what using a decoy dog has to do with that. If the decoy method is covered under the same law then that sucks. That seems like a very good way to hunt coyotes and I would love to see it done.

I hunt birds with pointing dogs and I don't feel that it is it anything like hound hunting. If we have a dog that tries to chase or catch the birds then we have some more training to do. I also don't think all kinds of hound hunting are bad.

I will say that if there is a problem coyote that is going after livestock or causing some other problems the law about hound hunting them should not apply.

One last thought for now.....I think we should all be concerned about the humane treatment of animals and do everything we can to keep our hunting methods as ethical as we can.

Ethical by who's way of thinking? That seems to be the problem my friend.

[Justin C.]

adnahoundsman,
It seems to me that with hunting as with a lot of things moral questions are the hardest for everyone to agree on but that is why we have good discusions such as this one. Hopefully we all listen to what the other guy has to say, consider his view and take away from it what we can. 


By the way guys I know Branden personally and with all the animals he's killed he is no A.R.A.

[Branden]

adna, I use every weapon except a shotgun and pistol. And you obviously didn't get my point about having the hounds actually kill the deer or elk. Not the so called hunter.

This whole discussion doesn't really matter anyway since they will never reinstate hunting coyotes with hounds since there are more effective ways of controlling the population. So all you hound hunters can keep on crying and bitching. Have fun treeing coons. lol

[mossback91]

Just keepin up on a little following....

[jackelope]

Branden, you seem to be very arrogant and high on yourself. division among hunters is not a good thing but you don't seem to get that.

I don't see you as a hunter other hunters could count on if needed. thats too bad.

[granola/hippyslayer]

wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change .

[Justin C.]

wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change .

Are you saying that because someone disagrees with a certain hunting method that they are a meadow muffin or tree hugger of some sort?

LOL Branden was in a wilderness for a month strait one time hunting doll sheep in AK as a guide. Some of that time was spent in Grizz and wolf country solo with no weapon. He also had wolverines in camp causing trouble a lot. It could be that you are the ignorant one.

Also I find your screen name to be very ignorant. Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.

[billythekidrock]

Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.

Only a moron would want to take away another persons recreation!

[Branden]

Branden, you seem to be very arrogant and high on yourself. division among hunters is not a good thing but you don't seem to get that.

I don't see you as a hunter other hunters could count on if needed. thats too bad.

I guess that its too bad I don't believe in dog fights, cock fights, and letting hounds kill coyotes. Obviously the people in charge agree with me and not the guys on this board.

wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change .

Could you all please look up hunter in the dictionary. It say's nothing about having somebody or something else do all the work, including killing the animal for you. Here I copied this off Dictionary.com

–noun
1.    a person who hunts game or other wild animals for food or in sport.
2.    a person who searches for or seeks something: a fortune hunter.
3.    a horse specially trained for quietness, stamina, and jumping ability in hunting.
4.    an animal, as a dog, trained to hunt game.

I don't see where it says a dog trainer is a hunter, do any of you guys?

Like I said, have fun hunting coons.

[Justin C.]

Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.

Only a moron would want to take away another persons recreation!

So Vick should not have gone to jail because it was recreation?
What a stupid statement.

[Houndhunter]

for one thing name calling on a forum gets you know where, i learned that awhile ago and i thought you older guys whoulda figured that out

the reason they closed it was because dogs being used, not hounds killing yotes, to hunt canines is thought by some to be not moral in this day and age. i figure atleast 100 more yotes state wide, just not sure how many guys use dogs to hunt them maybe someone has a better estimate, will live this year because of that law. that to me seems big seeing as our small game numbers have drop substanctually since the end of trapping and hounding. then take reproduction of those yotes into effect and after a few years, well you get my point. i would rather have more game and play a bigger role in maintianing wildlife, than have less game and more prederators doing that for me. this law and more that will come could ruin our hunting as we know it, maybe not soon but eventually. i would give anything to have been born 50 years ago so i could have truly expeirenced what this great state had to offer.

i know this is maninly about hounding on yotes, but think of how much more spending and buying would be going on if we could still run hounds and trap. it was good for the economy, hell i know id be guiding bear with hounds and talk about a great way to put cash in the hands of a highschool kid.

in this day and age it seems like animals have the same rights as people, well it dont get more natural to a hound than hunting. the worst thing you can do to a hound is not allow them to do what they was made to do, i cant stand seeing dogs that stayed penned up most of the year do to the fact that some one tells you its wrong. maybe it wouldnt be a big deal if we could still run other animals, but what they did was make it so that you can only run one species for less than 6 months of the year.

its BS the whole issue with hounding and trapping, i love the sport to much to continue living in this state. im sure i will move to idaho or atleast near the border as some others, were losing our hunting rights year by year. and its to bad because this state has so much opportunity

[granola/hippyslayer]

wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change .

Are you saying that because someone disagrees with a certain hunting method that they are a meadow muffin or tree hugger of some sort?

LOL Branden was in a wilderness for a month strait one time hunting doll sheep in AK as a guide. Some of that time was spent in Grizz and wolf country solo with no weapon. He also had wolverines in camp causing trouble a lot. It could be that you are the ignorant one.

Also I find your screen name to be very ignorant. Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.

Oh yes you are quite right only a moron would want to kill someone because of a difference of opinion. People who take everything literally are also ignorant.  Hunting fox / or today coyotes has been a sport for longer than this country has been established. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you should want to make it so those who do shouldn't be able to enjoy that activity. right wouldn't that make you just like the anti's right?