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Author Topic: Wolves eating all our deer  (Read 168803 times)

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2009, 09:46:53 AM »
Funny thing was those wolves in the Blues were there probably about 5 years before the first ever mated pair were discovered in the methow since blah blah many years.  You should ask him how long they have been monitoring them.  


I have been told by someone that has trailcam photos of the ones in Teanaway, and have seen tracks in there in the snow that I was highly suspicious of one this spring.  I discounted it because it Could have been a very large stray dog, but in reality it probably wasn't. :dunno:  
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 10:00:58 AM by boneaddict »

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2009, 10:31:31 AM »
Quote
Idaho was begging to transport some somewhere.


Bingo..and that was right before ours blew up.


Fido gets in the crate with the USF&W they drop them off in twisp done deal.  Hotel and gas $500 bucks.

The endangered species act provides all sorts of cover for them lying.  They play dumb about Grizzly bears in the cascades and Wolves in Washington. There is no Benefit for them to disclose what they are up to especially in a sensitive area where the wolves could be hunted out really quick if the "folks" discovered what there plan was.
Well you're right on the money there.  If I was charged with wolf recovery in Wa I would not tell anyone where the wolves were because I would be afraid of the SSS crowd. 

The wolves in ID are different than the ones in the methow.  DNA evidence as well as their general appearance- different animals.

Offline BLKBEARKLR

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2009, 04:49:33 PM »
nothing to say just want to folow this thread
22 years 3 months and 4 days, happily retired from the U.S Army.


Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2009, 06:09:21 PM »
I just heard on Fox news there was 670k in the stimulus for a washington state wolf breading program.........
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2009, 06:26:07 PM »
Different than th eold ones or different than the new ones.  :)

Offline Ironhead

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2009, 06:38:27 PM »
So what else other than wolves and big cats would be killing cattle? Did you see any cat tracks around the cow? How do you prove it wasn't a wolf.

Thats the same horse crap they said in Idaho, we can't prove it was wolves, maybe on the next one, and on and on and on.

Now Id is sending out questionaires on why Non Residents aren't buying liscences anymore. Must be the cats......... Wait,   I can't prove that.
"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is, that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2009, 06:57:40 PM »
Lets see 2200 dollars now for a moose tag and most of the moose have been eliminated from teh clearwater or Dworshak.  Yes I know there are still SOME moose there, but NOT NEARLY the numbers.

Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2009, 11:38:29 PM »
The WDFW has no problem with reintroducing the wolves to the state.  It is no secret.  If they looked into it for the peninsula why would you be surprised if they did it in other areas.  I would like to know what ever came of this "assessment of prey species" and if they concluded that wolves could be reintroduced to the peninsula.  Does anyone know?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/research/papers/wolf_intro/

Quote
Methods to Assess Prey Abundance for Possible Wolf Reintroductions
on the Olympic Peninsula, Washington, Using DNA from Pellets
D. John Pierce (WDFW), Samuel K. Wasser (U. of Washington Dept. of Zoology),
Christine M. Clarke (U. of Washington School of Medicine), and Kenneth I. Warheit (WDFW)

2001

INTRODUCTION: There has been a growing interest in the question of whether to establish a gray wolf (Canis lupus) population on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington State. Prior to the twentieth century wolves were common residents of the Olympic Peninsula (Scheffer 1995). The historical record indicates that by the 1930's or 1940's Olympic Peninsula wolves were likely extinct. The last verified record occurred in 1930’s (Scheffer 1995). Today approximately 25% of the peninsula (approximately 3,600 km2 is within Olympia National Park) is in the same general condition that existed when wolves were present 100 years ago. However, since the early 1900's the majority of the peninsula landscape outside of the park (~ 12,000 km2) has been managed as commercial timberlands and has changed considerably since wolves were last reported on the peninsula.

The large scale changes to the landscape, the uncertain associated effects on any potentially reintroduced wolf population, and a recognized lack of biological information on prey species known to occur on the peninsula, led the U.S. Congress to appropriate funds in 1998 to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to investigate the possibility of reintroducing wolves on the peninsula. In March 1998 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service contracted with the University of Idaho to examine the biological feasibility of restoring wolves to their former range on Washington’s Olympic Peninsula (Ratti et al. 1999). One problem facing the feasibility analysis was that there was virtually no quantitative information available on the abundance and densities of the likely prey species, Roosevelt elk (Cervus elaphus roosevelti) and black-tailed deer (Odocoilius hemionus columbianus), for the peninsula. This was particularly true of black-tailed deer populations both inside and outside of the Olympic National Park. Recognizing this limitation, the U.S. Congress House Report of the Appropriations Committee stated: “these funds should permit the necessary review and research and priority focus should be placed on prey base studies”.

Although much of the attention so far has centered on the ability of the Olympic National Park to support wolves, there is a need to look at the landscape outside of the park to evaluate wolf reintroductions. Probably the most important reason to consider non-park land as important in determining the likelihood of a successful reintroduction is that almost all (~90%) of the Peninsula-wide winter range of potential prey, (i.e. deer and elk), exists outside of the Olympic National Park boundary. Most of Olympic National Park is over 750 meters in elevation, which is a defining typical winter range for deer and elk on the peninsula (Jenkins et al. 1999, Ratti et al. 1999). In contrast, non-park land that surrounds the Park is at much lower elevation. Most of the area outside of the Park is below 500 meters in elevation.

Historically abundance estimations of deer in western Washington have ranged from 5-150 deer /sq mile, depending on the local habitat conditions in the surrounding landscape (Ratti et al. 1999, Raedeke 1986, Brown 1961). In spite of the fact that black-tailed deer are the most abundant ungulate on the peninsula no method exists for accurately determining the size of the deer population with an adequate level of precision (Raedeke 1993). Western Washington and in particular the Olympic Peninsula receives substantial annual rainfall (over 300 cm) which translates to rapid and heavy growth of underbrush. The presence of the underbrush and dense forest canopy make it especially difficult to directly observe deer. Traditional techniques used to monitor deer have included spotlighting transects, composition counts from deer observed while driving, and in some cases pellet counts.

However the most important and consistent method used to monitor the deer population has relied on the estimated annual number of deer killed during the fall hunting season. Even the most quantitative approach to analyzing deer harvest numbers, at best, provides only an index to changing trends in the population, not reliable estimates of the absolute abundance of black-tailed deer on the peninsula. The scope of this project is to evaluate the feasibility of using DNA genotyping from deer pellets collected along random transects to determine an unbiased estimate of the population abundance of black-tailed deer on the Olympic Peninsula.

The original objectives of this study were to 1) develop a population estimation technique for black-tailed deer in dense forest of western Washington, and 2) determine the abundance and distribution of black-tailed deer on the Olympic Peninsula outside of the Olympic National Park (ONP).


Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2009, 11:52:44 PM »
Basically this says that the only reason they have not planted wolves on the peninsula is because they have a hard time counting the deer and elk there.  They dont have that problem in other places so Im sure they have planted wolves.  It is very possible that these second hand accounts might be true.  The question is where did they get the wolves from.  Canada or Idaho?

Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2009, 12:17:39 AM »
Quote
To report sightings of a wolf or wolf tracks, or suspected wolf depredation on livestock, contact the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), the agency responsible for wolf management in Washington. In eastern Washington, the USFWS office can be reached at 509-891-6839; in western Washington, call 360-753-9440. Wolf sightings can also be recorded on the USFWS toll-free hotline, 1-888-584-9038.


http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/fact_sheet.htm

Quote
There are no federal or state plans to reintroduce wolves into Washington. With the success of recent federal wolf-recovery efforts in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, it is likely that wolves will increasingly disperse into eastern Washington. State and federal wildlife authorities are monitoring the activity of resident wolves to learn more about their use of habitat and to reduce potential conflicts.

Well it seems this statement contradicts the study I posted above.  Maybe they gave up on the idea or already introduced them where they could.   :dunno: And it is the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that is in charge of wolf management in Washington?  Yet WDFW has created a working group to developed a state wolf plan.
 
http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=jan0807b

Lots of conflicting info here.  Interesting.

I hope you all are doing your part to report your wolf related encounters, even tracks.  (See phone numbers above).  I would like to see a flood of real sightings to help get a management plan in action.  If you SSS we may never see any wolf tags here in Washington.  And just for the record I called DIBS on the first one.   :chuckle:  Now what to do with it...rug it, mount it or wear it?


« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 12:51:58 AM by Kain »

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2009, 08:25:42 AM »
The locals here in the valley have been seeing wolves for 5or 6 years now, we generally don't tell anyone about wildlife such as spotted owls and wolves, because of the closures that follow.  A rancher just out of Twisp was the first to say something to the game department, suddenly up pops the ws wildlife biologist and he is spouting brand new wolf pack, we know something smells funny, especially when we have been seeing them white suv's with the attennas here n there and little martians holding atennas in the air way before said wolf pack was dicovered. People who have live here for many years know these wolves are planted, where the wolf people really jumped up n down on their own parts is when they got caught releasing some more wolves on on the new game department land, (the golden Doe) same place where the cow was killed. They keep bring up the look-out pack this and look-ou pack that, I would like to ask the fools if this pack has 100 plus wolves in it, because there are a hell of alot of wolves in the valley and surounding okanogan for just one pack. Evan before they got caught releasing more wolves, someone had a game department friend who said that they had release some wolves in here quite some time ago. As you know wolves follow the game, in the methow valley all the game drops to the valley floor and surounding lowlands, so in the spring the pups are poping out in peoples backyard or real close. With the amount of tourists we get here in the summer time and the spandex infested cross country skiers in the winter, I think the wolf will have to be translocated agin to some other place. As far as Fitkin trying to say he don't know what killed the cow, well that is pure Bullsh--.

Back in the early 1990's the feds planted some grizzly bears in the Pasayten wilderness, never told anybody. Then they went back in and tried to catch them agin to prove we had the big bears here, but all they could catch were black bears. So this isn't a new thing for them. (plant then discover)

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2009, 08:28:20 AM »
The locals here in the valley have been seeing wolves for 5or 6 years now, we generally don't tell anyone about wildlife such as spotted owls and wolves, because of the closures that follow.  A rancher just out of Twisp was the first to say something to the game department, suddenly up pops the ws wildlife biologist and he is spouting brand new wolf pack, we know something smells funny, especially when we have been seeing them white suv's with the attennas here n there and little martians holding atennas in the air way before said wolf pack was dicovered. People who have live here for many years know these wolves are planted, where the wolf people really jumped up n down on their own parts is when they got caught releasing some more wolves on on the new game department land, (the golden Doe) same place where the cow was killed. They keep bring up the look-out pack this and look-ou pack that, I would like to ask the fools if this pack has 100 plus wolves in it, because there are a hell of alot of wolves in the valley and surounding okanogan for just one pack. Evan before they got caught releasing more wolves, someone had a game department friend who said that they had release some wolves in here quite some time ago. As you know wolves follow the game, in the methow valley all the game drops to the valley floor and surounding lowlands, so in the spring the pups are poping out in peoples backyard or real close. With the amount of tourists we get here in the summer time and the spandex infested cross country skiers in the winter, I think the wolf will have to be translocated agin to some other place. As far as Fitkin trying to say he don't know what killed the cow, well that is pure Bullsh--.

Back in the early 1990's the feds planted some grizzly bears in the Pasayten wilderness, never told anybody. Then they went back in and tried to catch them agin to prove we had the big bears here, but all they could catch were black bears. So this isn't a new thing for them. (plant then discover)


I believe it.

I can't prove it, but I am sure they did/are doing the same on the OP.




Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2009, 10:44:35 AM »
They will plant them in as many states as they can get away with and I think they will sneak plant them like they did here, after all if they don't get caught they can always say that they migrated into your backyard, as it is a big land control issue for the enviromentalists. The feds I think would like to get rid of their involvement now as it isn't turning out to well for them. But the enviromentalists throw a lawsuit everytime they try to do anything. when these wolves finish killing off all the game who will be hunting, and paying the game department. The enviromentalist are trying to get these wolves planted in Colorado now in the park but the people there don't want nothing to do with these wolves. Bangs, said that these wolves don't need to be reintroduced in every state, so hopefully this wolf issue is going to start getting a little more control. I think we will lose some people to these wolves in the methow, as they are not afraid of people at all. and I wonder how many times some of these wolves have been handle by people and how long they have been fed roadkill in between releases. In Idaho, they could translocate problem wolves to othe states, and I wonder if we have some of them wolves, at any rate wolves are wolves and they live to kill. I read that when they take out a problem wolf, wolves there is always some more to take their place. They talk now about managing these wolves, they would have to take out at least 3o to 4o% of the wolves before they even get started on managing. Tags for 300 wolve isn't squat if you have 1500 plus wolves having litters up 14. Which is what I have read they have had before, consider half of that at 7 wolf pups per litter, times that by 800, or 400. You know that when they have a problem with the wolves they hunt them down with helicopters and airplanes, quite a bit of difference than one of us going wolf huntin. I don't think it will be that easy to manage these wolves now that we have so many of them.

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2009, 02:11:53 PM »
Right on the money Wolfbait.
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline Idabooner

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2009, 03:01:23 PM »
For my  :twocents: I believe Wolfbait knows what he's talking about, I agree with everything he's said so far, very good reporting.

 


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