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Author Topic: Wolves eating all our deer  (Read 170247 times)

Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #255 on: June 04, 2009, 04:57:51 PM »
 Their political contributions also go to some of the worst anti-gun politicians out there.


Offline FrankDown

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #256 on: June 04, 2009, 05:04:18 PM »
What is the difference from the Canadian wolves and the wolves that were originally here?

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #257 on: June 04, 2009, 05:05:46 PM »
Quote
What is the difference from the Canadian wolves and the wolves that were originally here

About a 100lbs
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline FrankDown

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #258 on: June 04, 2009, 05:23:07 PM »
Are the wolves that were originally here a different sub species or just different DNA that had adapted to thi sregion and didnt need the extra mass?  Typically the colder it is the bigger the mass for heat retention.

Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #259 on: June 04, 2009, 05:39:16 PM »
Bigger and a more aggressive due to the harsher conditions and larger game farther north.  The ones down here were smaller and less aggressive because of plentiful game, fewer competitors and rivals, and moderate climate.  I dont know that the DNA is any different though.

I am not an expert but I also think the Washington wolves travel less.  Large quantities of game usually keep animals from moving around.  The northern wolves are constantly moving because that is what they are use to doing to find game.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 05:52:15 PM by Kain »

Offline FrankDown

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #260 on: June 04, 2009, 06:29:49 PM »
Does anyone have any information about what the departments did to prepare the ecosystem for the release of the wolves?  It seems taht releasing another strain on an unprepared ecosystem would have ben thought of and other methods to prepare the other elements in their foodchainwould have been managed ina dvance for their release, such as programs to be implemented inthe event theat they caught on well.  Projections of game animals or food animals rather and how they would be affected by the new (although I realize they arent new here spare me the rhetoric, for all intents and purposes wolves havent been involved in this ecosystem for some time however).

Seems from the info that I have its a dump and run operation.  The same as in the other states.  Lets let them go and wee what happens sort of thing.

Offline Kain

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #261 on: June 04, 2009, 06:54:08 PM »
Does anyone have any information about what the departments did to prepare the ecosystem for the release of the wolves?  It seems taht releasing another strain on an unprepared ecosystem would have ben thought of and other methods to prepare the other elements in their foodchainwould have been managed ina dvance for their release, such as programs to be implemented inthe event theat they caught on well.  Projections of game animals or food animals rather and how they would be affected by the new (although I realize they arent new here spare me the rhetoric, for all intents and purposes wolves havent been involved in this ecosystem for some time however).

Seems from the info that I have its a dump and run operation.  The same as in the other states.  Lets let them go and wee what happens sort of thing.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/180758_wolf05.html  2004
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008016031_wolves24m.html  2008


The way they make it sound there wasnt any wolves here in the first place.  Why would they look into more aggressive planted wolves migrating into Washington and taking out the native wolves if they didnt believe they were here.  Of course they did know they were here, there just isnt any money for them if you already have wolves.

National parks service
http://www.nps.gov/archive/noca/wolf.htm

Quote
Are gray wolves reproducing in the North Cascades?

In 1990, adults with pups were seen in the Hozomeen area. This was the first known reproduction of wild wolves in Washington State in at least 50 years! Since 1990, biologists have seen three separate groups of adult wolves with pups in the Cascades. Wolves mate in February or March. About 63 days later a litter averaging six pups is born.


http://www.pacificbio.org/ESIN/MapImages/graywolf.jpg   1998

http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=oct1698a   1998
Quote
Research studies earlier this decade indicated that wolves had reappeared in the North Cascades. A federal proposal to reintroduce wolves to the Olympic National Park is also being studied.


They did do an environmental impact survey for the peninsula and decided not to release wolves there.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/research/papers/wolf_intro/

http://www.defenders.org/resources/publications/programs_and_policy/wildlife_conservation/imperiled_species/wolf/places_for_wolves_2006.pdf
Quote
Another area once under consideration for potential wolf
recovery is Washington state’s Olympic Peninsula, particularly
the almost-1-million-acre Olympic National Park and adjacent
500,000-acre Olympic National Forest. Although gray wolves
from Canada probably could recolonize the Cascades as well
as the Selkirk Mountains in northeastern Washington on
their own, any wolf recovery in Olympic National Park would
require relocating animals. Too many people and too much
development in the Seattle-Tacoma area block wolf return to the
Olympic Peninsula without human intervention. A feasibility
study conducted for FWS by the University of Idaho found
that the Olympic Peninsula provides suffi cient suitable habitat
to support about 60 wolves (Ratti et al. 1999, Hosack 1997).

However, restoration efforts are not moving forward for several
reasons. These include concerns that proximity to people would
inhibit wolf dispersal, that the isolation of the area would limit
necessary genetic variability, and that wolves would have impacts
on deer and elk herds
(see page 9).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 07:20:54 PM by Kain »

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #262 on: June 04, 2009, 07:29:00 PM »
The wolf agenda is about land control,  all over the united states!  And you might think I'm nuts, but the more you study on this and the deeper you dig, it all keeps coming back to the enviromentalist and their ideas of what it should be.. You mention this to some of the real enviromentalist, and see how quik they get real nasty. There are alot of people who are pro-wolf that don't know about this, they are blinded my the headlights. If they new that perhaps in the end they could lose their home for these wolves, then they wouldn't be for the wolves.  It has to hit in their back yard before they will look at both sides. You think that we have it bad, you need to check out what is going on down in Arizona and New Mexico, now they have a bad wolf problem. And their wolves aren't even pure bred, they are a pen raise cross breed that is getting dumped in their back yards. Their wolves can kill three times before the feds will move them, its called the 3-strikes rule. I   .http://www.wmicentral.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=2264&dept_id=505965&newsid=17108302 )
          
http://www.prosts.com/Documentary-Undue-Burden.htm This dvd tells it all, same thing is what the Northwest states are going through.

With the hunting shut off, it makes things all the more easier.


The illusion of the endangered wolf has gone on for 26 years. This is in spite of the fact that there is much information available to show that wolves are far from being an endangered species. Other information shows that wolves are not needed in the ecology of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan and that the three states are better off ecologically and economically without wolves. The benefactors of the wolf situation we have are the bureaucrats of the USFWS and the state DNRs as they spend the taxpayer's money on their very counterproductive wolf restoring activities. Support from misguided animal rights, anti hunting, environmental organizations together with not enough people getting informed and involved makes this possible.   http://home.centurytel.net/PAW/illusion.htm

We all sit back in the brush and argue about who, and how come, and what about,, which is just what they want us to do. They dam sure don't want anyone to find out the real reason for the wolves till its to late. I think that we need to form our own club, that includes, all the people we can find that enjoy outdoor activities. From the amount of people out there that enjoy the outdoors as much as we do, we should be able to come up with a plan. This won't be solved by shootin every wolf we see, Idaho already tried that.

Congress didn't want this wolf reintrodution, thats why they didn't set enough money aside for it to go through, I think they allowed $65000.00, so the enviromantalist raised the rest of the money to go get the wolves and start reintroducing them. And the USFWS pushed it through illegally. And now with it all going to hell they can't delist because the enviromentalist sue and get them relisted..   The feds were thinking of $, the enviromentalist had a plan of their own.


The fact that FWS allowed the state game agencies

to provide unrealistic impacts based on inaccurate data

does not excuse Bangs’ failure to correct that

misinformation once he knew it was false. On that same

day, September 24, 1993, I provided Bangs with three

pages of testimony, with exhibits documenting the gross

exaggerations in the central Idaho ungulate prey base.

Because Idaho’s Wolf Oversight Committee

approved communications from Conley to Bangs, I urged

them to correct the misinformation contained in the EIS

and in Conley’s draft letter. Instead they simply directed

Conley to substitute the words “reasonable estimate” for

“realistic picture” in the final version of his letter dated

October 12, 1993 – thereby allowing F&G’s false

information and erroneous predictions to remain in the EIS.

“Nothing Wrong With Lying to the Public”

In a February 17 1994 meeting with Sandy Donley

and me, Oversight Committee member Don Clower told us

the Committee knew the prey population figures were

highly inflated when they were given to FWS but said that

was necessary to support the rapid build-up of wolves that

would occur in the Nonessential Experimental recovery

option. Then he said he saw nothing wrong with lying to

the public to accomplish that goal.

In a March 9, 1994 letter to Bangs signed by its

Co-Chairman Jack Lavin, the Idaho Wolf Oversight

Committee formally supported the “Nonessential

Experimental” recovery option over the “No Wolf

Introduction” option. Although three of the seven voting

Committee members, including Co-Chairman George

Bennett, withdrew their support for that option in a letter to

Bangs dated October 17, 1994, their letter was ignored.

The IDFG 1993 and, later, the 1994 big game

census information I provided to Bangs indicated there

were only about 40,000 total post-hunting-season ungulates

in the central Idaho primary analysis area instead of the

241,400 claimed in the Wolf EIS. In a private conversation

with me Bangs admitted that the claimed populations were

“probably exaggerated” yet in the August 16, 1994 Federal

Register he wrote, “Millions of acres of public lands

contain hundreds of thousands of wild ungulates (Service

1994) and currently provide more than enough habitat to

support a recovered wolf population in central Idaho.”

(emphasis added).

Oversight Committee Bias

But even if FWS and IDFG were willing to lie

about the declining prey base in central Idaho, the Wolf

Oversight Committee was formed by the Legislature in

1993 to protect Idaho’s interests in the formation of a wolf

plan. Why did that Committee fail to do its job?

One answer is that four of the seven voting

members on the Oversight Committee supported the

FWS/IDFG plan to import Canadian wolves and protect

and manage them as a new big game species. Jack Lavin

and Don Clower were hand-picked by IDFG to support its

agenda and both Resource Committee chairmen had a

history of supporting IDFG agendas that were unpopular

with grassroots sportsmen and other natural resource users.

Senate Resources Committee Chairman. Laird Noh

was also actively involved in The Nature Conservancy

whose goal to restore wolves and grizzly bears in a

network of core roadless areas was already being

implemented. But regardless of its members’ personal

agendas, the Oversight Committee was required by law to

develop a plan that included consideration of local

economies, custom, culture and private property rights.

Instead it virtually copied the FWS Plan and

several of its members publicly ridiculed county

government efforts to include protection of domestic

livestock and pets on private property. The October 17,

1994 letter signed by Bennett, Ted Hoffman, Stan Boyd

and non-voting member Lois Van Hoover, listed multiple

violations of the ESA in the proposed FWS Rule and

declared those members’ intent to recommend the Idaho

Legislature refuse to approve the wolf plan approved by

the Committee.

F&G Illegally Agreed To Canadian Transplants

I.C. Sec. 36-715(2) expressly prohibited IDFG

from entering into any agreement with any entity of the

U.S. Government concerning wolves unless expressly

authorized by state statute but that law had already been

brazenly violated by IDFG Director Jerry Conley. On

September 27, 1994, without authorization from the

Legislature or even the full Oversight Committee, Conley

signed a letter to Bangs supporting the FWS Experimental

Rule and agreeing to work with FWS to reintroduce wolves

from British Columbia and Alberta into the Idaho

experimental population area.

On that same day, Conley also delivered a Special

Permit to Bangs in Boise, signed by IDFG Wildlife Bureau

Chief Tom Reinecker, authorizing FWS to “release a

maximum of 15 Canadian wolves in Central Idaho for up

to five years or until 2 breeding pairs are each documented

to produce 2 or more pups that survive until 31 December

for two consecutive years.” The permit stated that the wolf

releases would be conducted in accordance with the Idaho

wolf management plan.

Idaho AG, Congress Ignore False EIS Info

Although the plan was soundly rejected by the

Legislature, Bangs and FWS went ahead and conducted the

wolf release – legally from their standpoint – with the

signed agreement endorsing the Nonessential Experimental

Option and Rules and the signed Wolf Release Permit both

in their possession. On January 25, 1995, Idaho Attorney

General Alan Lance was provided with documentation of

the misinformation and Code violations but no action was

taken against Conley or any of the Oversight Committee

members who authorized illegal issuance of the

agreements.   www.saveelk.com


http://wolfcrossing.org/2009/05/26/wild-earth-guardians-launches-rural-cleansing-campaign-against-gila-residents-and-ranching/
Wild Earth Guardians launches rural cleansing campaign against Gila residents and ranching
Protecting the Gila

WildEarth Guardians wants to secure lasting and landmark protection for the endangered wildlands and wildlife of the Gila Bioregion in southwestern New Mexico and southeastern Arizona. Our vision is a healthy population of wolves surrounded by millions of acres of newly designated wilderness. Eventually we believe that America’s first Wilderness Area should become its next great National Park or National Monument. How could such a bold vision come to fruition? Come find out about WildEarth Guardians’ strategy to lead the way in protecting the Gila. We look forward to a great conversation! Please RSVP to Carol Norton, 505-988-9126, ext. 1150 or cnorton@wildearthguardians.org.

 You really want to know whats, what. well this is it, and its been happening for along time. So what do we do?

http://www.takingliberty.us/TLHome.html




Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #263 on: June 04, 2009, 07:41:57 PM »
This thred gets better every day.
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #264 on: June 04, 2009, 09:16:05 PM »
The way they make it sound there wasnt any wolves here in the first place.  Why would they look into more aggressive planted wolves migrating into Washington and taking out the native wolves if they didnt believe they were here.  Of course they did know they were here, there just isnt any money for them if you already have wolves.

The reason for the canadian wolf introduction is they, the enviromantalist wanted  wolves that would desimate the elk and deer herds and what ever else. with nothing to hunt, where would the hunter be? In Minnasota and that country, they did a study and found that these wolves were killing the native timber wolves and that they were also interbreeding with coyotes. Now we don't know when they started putting wolves in washington, how long was it?  But the more people that you talk to around Washington, the more you realize that there are a hell of alot more wolves than we know about. I would bet the feds and the pro-wolf people don't even know by now, as you can bet that everyone of the female wolves did't just have 1 or 2 pups. who wants to make a bet that they are already in the Olympic Peninsula, but of corse they migrated there on their own.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #265 on: June 04, 2009, 09:20:11 PM »
wolfbait thanks for the links to www.saveelk.com
Lots of interesting things on this page, like the video of Spokane News reporting about possible misuse of F&G property.....be interesting to see where that goes.

Here is another very interesting website: http://westinstenv.org/wildpeop/2008/12/26/corruption-featherbedding-and-looting-the-idaho-treasury/


Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #266 on: June 04, 2009, 10:23:24 PM »
Yer welcome, Bearpaw, I have a few more if yer interested, I have the one you just sent an its good also. Here's a couple more.

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2008/07/10/krichert/feds_new_wolf_policy_not_our_problem


http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2009/01/06/programmed-failure-in-wolf-relisting/

Programmed Failure In Wolf Relisting
January 6, 2009




http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/press_releases_folder/1996/01_22_1996_defenders_helps_fly_wolves_to_yellowstone.ph

Defenders Helps Fly Wolves to Yellowstone

Historic Reintroduction Continues Despite Budget Cuts
A U.S. Forest Service airplane with nineteen wolves on board is leaving British Columbia tonight bound for Yellowstone National Park and wilderness areas of central Idaho, financed in large part by Defenders of Wildlife and other private wildlife conservation organizations rather than the government.

Despite funding freezes and near-record cold in the Canadian Rockies, the second stage of the historic reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone, begun a year ago, is underway. The wolves are scheduled to arrive in Yellowstone either late tonight or Tuesday and in Idaho on Tuesday. The endeavor was temporarily stalled by a $200,000 funding reduction and the government shutdowns until Defenders of Wildlife and two other private organizations came forward to help finance the capture and transport of the latest set of wolves.



 
PRESS RELEASE



Broad-Based Wolf Coalition Serves Notice of

Intent to File Civil Suit



         On April 3, 2009, a coalition of associations and entities which are directly affected from the impact of introduction of non-native Canadian gray wolves into Wyoming filed a formal 60 day notice of intent to sue the federal government over its refusal to delist wolves in the state.  The coalition, currently comprised of the Wyoming Wool Growers Association, Wyoming Stock Growers Association, Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation, Wyoming Association of Conservation Districts, Rocky Mountain Farmers Union, Wyoming Association of County Predatory Animal Boards, Niobrara County Predatory Animal Board, Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association, Cody Country Outfitters and Guides Association, and Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife Wyoming, (hereafter collectively referred to as the “Wolf Coalition”), served their notice of intent to commence a civil lawsuit against the Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, USFWS Acting Director Rowan Gould and Stephen Guertin, USFWS Acting Regional Director for the Mountain Region.



The Wolf Coalition intends to seek injunctive relief for violation of the Endangered Species Act and its related regulations and policies.  The Wolf Coalition’s claims arise from the FWS’s continued rejection of the Wyoming Wolf Management Plan, its failure to delist the gray wolf population in Wyoming, and from its decision to proceed with delisting in Montana, Idaho and parts of Oregon and W ashington. 



         The Wolf Coalition’s Notice of Intent summarizes at least sixteen different ways in which the FWS has violated the Endangered Species Act or other federal law.  One of the primary violations relates to the FWS’s failure and refusal to follow and implement the Recovery Plan that formed the basis for introduction of non-native Canadian gray wolves into the Yellowstone Recovery Area.  The Notice also points out that the FWS violated the ESA by rejecting Wyoming’s Plan, despite the fact that the gray wolf population has not only met, but has exceeded the recovery criteria set forth in the Recovery Plan and other FWS documents.



In way of example, the FWS previously defined a “viable recovered wolf population” as “ten breeding pairs in each of the three recovery areas for three consecutive years.”  The FWS anticipated that a “recovered” population would total approximately 300 wolves.  It was expected that ten of those breeding pairs (or approximately 100 wolves) would be located in the Yellowstone Recovery Area.  In 2007, the FWS estimated that there were a minimum of 1,531 wolves, including 107 breeding pairs, within the Northern Rocky Mountain Area.  By the end of 2007, there were at least 171 wolves in 11 packs living inside of Yellowstone Park and 188 wolves in 25 packs living in Wyoming outside of Yellowstone Park.  The total number of breeding pairs within the state of Wyoming in 2007 was conservatively estimated at 24, 2.4 X’s the number needed for delisting.  Despite having exceeded their own goals by more than double, the FWS refuses to allow Wyoming to manage the exploding Canadian gray wolf population.  In fact, the FWS is not only demanding that Wyoming protect the Canadian gray wolf throughout the entire State, but is also insisting that Wyoming assume a larger share of the load than either Idaho or Montana. 



         The Wolf Coalition is also challenging the FWS’s decision to reject the Wyoming Plan, despite the fact that ten of the eleven peer reviewers hand-picked by the FWS concluded that it provided the necessary regulatory mechanism to protect and preserve the Northern Rocky Mountain gray wolf population.



         The Coalition notes in its 60-Day Notice, “The FWS’s decision to reject the Wyoming Plan violates the Endangered Species Act, which requires the Secretary and Directors to base decisions ‘solely upon the best scientific and commercial data available…’ Rather than support and defend Wyoming’s Wolf Management Plan-a Plan that meets all of the requirements of the ESA- the FWS has hung the State of Wyoming out to dry ” (emphasis added).



The Coalition’s Notice calls further attention to one of the most frustrating aspects of the Obama Administrations handling of the wolf delisting issue when it states, “…the FWS continues to allow itself to be hijacked and controlled by certain organizations that have no intention of allowing the Canadian gray wolves to be delisted, regardless of what the “best scientific and commercial data available” may show.”



Harriet Hageman, attorney for the Coalition, points out that the FWS is also seeking to dramatically expand the geographic region for the gray wolf.  “The deal from the beginning was that the gray wolf would be introduced into and managed in the Yellowstone area.  The FWS is now trying to force Wyoming to adopt a management plan that ensures that the wolves move throughout the State.  That is directly contrary to everything that the FWS told us when they brought the wolves into Yellowstone.”   



         The Notice of Intent has started the 60-day period for later filing a civil lawsuit against the FWS. 



         While the Coalition was initially comprised of 10 groups when the 60-day Notice was sent, additional groups have been added since that time and more groups are anticipated to join prior to the actual filing of the lawsuit in federal district court in Cheyenne.

.

         For further information, please contact Harriet M. Hageman, Attorney for the Wolf Coalition:

                   

                            Harriet M. Hageman

                            Hageman & Brighton

                            1822 Warren Avenue

                            Cheyenne, Wyoming 82001

                            (307) 635-4888



         

Offline FrankDown

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #267 on: June 05, 2009, 12:10:41 AM »
This is a sore subject for some of the peopel that I know.  Some just think that wanting to manage wolves make syou a bloodthirsty killer.  Mismanaged ecology is not good practice.  I cannot get some of these people to udnerstand that if you are not building the base of prey fo rthese wolves, then they are going to make the ecosystem even more taxed.  You cant build a house on the sand.  They just dont get it.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #268 on: June 05, 2009, 05:51:03 AM »
The original natives were often referred to as Red wolves.  Wacoy would know more about species stuff.  They were indeed smaller and often had red shading on their legs and such.  A little harder to distinguish between coyote and wolf.  Size and color.  I had the pleasure of seeing a Ma and Pa and one pup in a den entrance back in the 80's up the Twisp River.  I actually thought that was pretty cool.  These big greys are amazing though for their size.  Amazing isn't a term of flattery by the way...more like  :yike:

I've told this story on here before about NM.........So I dabooner and I were headed to our elk hunt down in 16, which as some of you may know is the Gila and one of the most premier elk hunts in the world.  So we are driving into the unit out of Socorro and we kept seeing these cages alongside the road.  It was at every bus stop as much as we could figure out.  A couple days later a warden stopped to chekc on us and we invited him into the camp to sit next to the fire and BS.   We asked him what the cages were for.  They built them to protect kids waiting for the bus.  Apparantly a pack of thos enice desert wolves decided they liked school kids.   :chuckle:    We were camped right in one of their hotspots, "story of my life the last couple years).  Saw lots of crap and a few tracks, but no wolves.  They ripped the backend out of a cow on the far side of our unit right after Idabooner and I was there, but we didn't see anything.  Cages for your kids.....lovely.   He said three wolves tormented two kids getting off the bus in broad daylight earlier that week.   :o

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Wolves eating all our deer
« Reply #269 on: June 05, 2009, 06:16:13 AM »
This is a sore subject for some of the peopel that I know.  Some just think that wanting to manage wolves make syou a bloodthirsty killer.  Mismanaged ecology is not good practice.  I cannot get some of these people to udnerstand that if you are not building the base of prey fo rthese wolves, then they are going to make the ecosystem even more taxed.  You cant build a house on the sand.  They just dont get it.

Everytime delisting comes into veiw for any of the states, the enviromentalist run these  adds throughtout the net. that the states will start massacring all the wolves, I think its a big donation catcher. After all thats where the enviromentalist get plenty of money, they are not the most honest monkeys in the barrel. Anywhere that these wolves are released you can expect to lose most of your game. For the people who don't beleive you, find the facts on the web, and show them what these wolves are doing, You can probably talk till yer blue in the face and they won't beleive you, but if you have enough facts, and it is stareing them in the face and they don't see the light, well then they already know more about where this wolf agenda is going. Most people wouldn't beleive that the enviromentalist could be such a chicken sh-t bunch, as to have no care for all the wildlife that these wolves will kill off or the people that the wolves will ruin their lifestyles and their change their way of life that they and their families have enjoyed for years.. But if you march back through the enviromentalist history you will see what kind of organization they really are, I know I have a special spot I would like to send the whole dam bunch of them. The trueth on the wolf management is the enviroentalist don't want these wolves managed, becuz it would screw their plans up.


http://blog.sunvalleyonline.com/index.p … er/page/2/

In 40 years of living in the West, Wyoming and Idaho, I personally saw and admired many trophy class bucks and bulls in winter prior to them dropping their horns, whereupon I hunted those sheds in both states along with the occasional Buffalo skull which thrilled me to find one, and I found a few. Now we often hear the anti hunter pro wolf person spreading the falsehoods they some how have come to believe in, by misguided political agenda most likely, it is sad, often these people stubbornly refuse to examine the real facts. The fact is this. With no American Conservation pro management model with hunts to harvest and control ungulates with a historical growth rate which during those decades showed a 15% minimum growth, There would Be no foundation, or prey base for the wolf to stand on period. Hunting, hunters, Sportsmen financed this foundation, Including the demonized trophy hunter.



My family still raised a wolf for 14 years, and I am often tempted to do it again, I also travel to winter ranges and look at elk, and glass for deer, it is the worst populations I have ever seen in 40 years, especially in Idaho, and our elk are in collapse, Wyoming’s four largest elk herds are in full collapse..Anti hunters and over protectors of wolves would have you believe hunters are to blame, their lying to you, they are guilty of using an animal as their political football to destroy hunting and gun ownership..A lot of folks have their heart in the right place but are misinformed..

Now I am packing some gear and heading out to the Middle Fork Boise Drainage, to look at the winter herd in there, I still am stunned when I do not find 8000 elk where they for decades wintered, and I dream of those trophy class bucks I used to watch over that way in winter..And proudly realizing the North American Model of Conservation I supported for 40 years did far more to support wolves than any other group in history…We built the foundation for the wolves to stand on..It is being destroyed by others…for their own personal agenda’s..

The only biologist getting this wolf program predicted correctly is Valerus Geist. He layed this out and predicted the outcome, the only thing he miscalculated was the time frame in which wolves would destroy Idaho’s herds..It is happening much faster than he warned it would. Only ten years to wipe out what hunters established with great success over eight decades in Idaho.. History proves the right people have been managing wild animals all along…
The New Model of lies is crashing.



 


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