Impact of bears on Mule deer

[huntnnw]

Just last week a state released a study on mule deer fawn mortality and it was something like 46% of fawns killed were by bears. I cannot remember the state.

[bigmacc]

That sounds pretty close to the studies I remember. Although great grandmas is not official 🤣👍. Thanks for the post.

[bigmacc]

Been singing this song for a few years now. Bears are impacting mule deer herds in a huge way. They come out of hibernation craving protein, does are dropping fawns, bear numbers are out of control. Fawn crops are being decimated, biologists know this. IMO, over the last 8-10 years bears and cats have been the toughest opponents for mule deer herds. My cousin did a study years ago before he  passed stating (in a nut shell) that bears are very negatively influential predators upon mule deer herds. This study was done years ago but I am seeing it today. Fawn carcasses are prevalent in fawning areas that i frequent (Methow), I remember back in the day my cousin and I would walk, we/he would mention things. Back in the 60,s/70,s he always said, “if bear numbers ever get out of control, it will be the demise of our deer herds”. He feared bears, over cougars and other predators. Because they could take 10 fawns in a day when stumbling/sniffing out fawning grounds. Ferocious predators when hungry.

If you find a fawn carcass it wasn't a bear
 When a bear gets done with a fawn there is virtually nothing left. Bear impact on mule deer is minimal compared to cougar impact. Several studies done in Utah that show they are rough on fawns, but a very minimal  impact on adult deer.

I was gonna say the same
Cougar is king when it comes to killing deer ,fawn or otherwise.

All due respect 👍. We have found half eaten fawns in “fawning areas”, places where does will congregate with the fawns. We have pictures as well as journal entries going back to 1920 where my great grandmother would love to witness the “reverse migration “. It was her favorite time of year to sit on a hillside and watch the deer including hundreds of fawns make their way to summer “happy places” (what she called it😢). There are journal entries of bears picking off fawns “to the left” and to the right”. They would kill a fawn, tear it apart, move on to another. She said the worst was bears with cubs. Many entries said that was the most hurtful to her. Does would try to protect traveling fawns in groups, only to have a mamma bear kill 4-5 fawns and let the cubs feed. Bears are bad on mule deer, cats are bad on mule deer. Now wolves.

Most of her entries were from vicious bear kills, some to the point she said she had to look away, only to turn back and see the same bear kill another fawn.

Now, if that’s what we witnessed back in the day, when bears and other predators were kept in check, imagine the devastation an explosion of predators could do on a herd. Pets, kids, etc. back then the Methow was 40k strong, predators were kept in check, AGGRESSIVELY, now the herd is a third of that size. Bears are killing pets, cats are killing pets, wolves are on the scene. Not rocket science.

[hunter399]

Cougar kill deer 24/7 .....365 days a year.
Bears may be the next biggest factor.
Show me a bear that kills and eat deer there entire life.

I believe our differences in oppion are the difference in top predator in any given area.

If cougar are absent in any area ,then yes bear would be top.
In the story you describe,when there is an easy meal,bears will take advantage.

But at the end of the day ,cougar kill adult deer ,which has a direct result of how many fawns will even be available for a bear to eat.
Also the predator pit we have now is alot different than pre 90's when hound hunting and bear baiting could keep predators in check. Without these tools ,cougar is king when it comes to deer population.
But this is just my two cents ,everybody has there own👍

[wadu1]

Don't know about deer. I was on a hunting trip on Vancouver Island and hunting near the elk calving area. Almost all the bear scats had little elk hooves in them.

[MADMAX]

And I love seeing on tonights KIRO news all the bears in peoples yards
Not mule deer I know
But just sayin
 

[wadu1]

And I love seeing on tonights KIRO news all the bears in peoples yards
Not mule deer I know
But just sayin
 

Munching on goats now,
https://mynorthwest.com/3907297/black-bear-eats-goat-in-bellevue-attempts-second-attack/

[bigmacc]

Cougar kill deer 24/7 .....365 days a year.
Bears may be the next biggest factor.
Show me a bear that kills and eat deer there entire life.

I believe our differences in oppion are the difference in top predator in any given area.

If cougar are absent in any area ,then yes bear would be top.
In the story you describe,when there is an easy meal,bears will take advantage.

But at the end of the day ,cougar kill adult deer ,which has a direct result of how many fawns will even be available for a bear to eat.
Also the predator pit we have now is alot different than pre 90's when hound hunting and bear baiting could keep predators in check. Without these tools ,cougar is king when it comes to deer population.
But this is just my two cents ,everybody has there own👍

👍 Don’t get me wrong, I know cats are putting a smack down on deer(I’m speaking the area I know,Methow) and have been for over 30 years or so. We find quite a few “cached” kills in areas, sometimes dozens within a few mile radius. In the Methow where the herd has been decimated by not only poor management but by exploding predator populations also, imo, fawn recruitment is essential to at least give this herd a chance. With bears becoming so prevalent with numbers absolutely going through the roof it doesn’t look good. It’s pretty easy to distinguish a cougar kill from a bear kill most of the time. From what we’ve seen/noticed is bears tear the fawn apart, sometimes eating most of it sometimes not, we found 7 fawn kills in a basin this past month, none cached, all tore apart to different degrees, one only had the head eatin and a front leg/shoulder. All of them looked to be killed within the time period of a week or so of each other. Bear crap and bear sign everywhere. I do agree cats are a huge issue, growing bear numbers are now decimating the future of the herd, fawns.👍

Bottom line with which we all agree is predators are a huge problem in this state, all of them, from cats to bears and wolves to coyotes. Predator pit? I think we agree on that also👍

[mcrawfordaf]

I have a cam down in a drainage that has had 3x adult bear and 2x cubs last year from summer to late fall. Same cam picked up rutting mulies chasing after doe. Don't think the adult deer are effected much.

Same area has PLENTY of fawn and calf carcass all next to bear sign as well.

[baldopepper]

While I don't mean to down play entirely the predator effect onour deer and elk herds I do have one big question. Why are the herds maintaining, and in fact growing, in areas with large tracts of private, no hunting property.  I've seen it in my general area of eastern wa and especially so around around the cmu units in Utah.  Obviously predators don't pay attention to the signs.  I've seen the mule deer herds around my house grow from a winter group of 10-12 twenty years ago, to now over 150. Not in any way suggesting no hunting, but thinking human encouragement and over hunting have played a big part in public land herd diminishment.

[bigmacc]

While I don't mean to down play entirely the predator effect onour deer and elk herds I do have one big question. Why are the herds maintaining, and in fact growing, in areas with large tracts of private, no hunting property.  I've seen it in my general area of eastern wa and especially so around around the cmu units in Utah.  Obviously predators don't pay attention to the signs.  I've seen the mule deer herds around my house grow from a winter group of 10-12 twenty years ago, to now over 150. Not in any way suggesting no hunting, but thinking human encouragement and over hunting have played a big part in public land herd diminishment.

Just my opinion 👍 Deer are getting pushed onto private property, into towns, into yards etc because they are figuring out the four legged predators that are pursuing them year round are more harmful to them than the two legged. We used to have a fawning area that we would take all the youngsters to in April, it was a short 1 mile or so hike but we would see literally 100,s of fawns, still in spots. We would all sit on a hillside, sometimes 20-30 of us eating lunch and watching. This was back in the 60,s. We stayed our distance and enjoyed. They would hang around for hours with their fawns then slowly disappear into the thickets, never afraid of us, just letting the fawns get some sun, browse and be able to play. I can guarantee if we were a group of cats, or bears or yotes, or wolves watching those herds in April from less than 100 yards away, those does would have gotten those babies out of there. Too many predators now days. Private property, towns, heck, people are becoming a sanctuary from being pursued 24/7/365 by exploding and expanding predator populations.

[Fidelk]

Nice history, macc.

[Twispriver]

Fawns in April? I always thought they dropped closer to the end of May. 

[bigmacc]

Fawns in April? I always thought they dropped closer to the end of May. 

Depends. Sometimes we would see fawns in April, sometimes in May, sometimes in June. When the reverse migration would start it all depended on weather and moon. We have records of seeing fawns at the beginning of April, I’ve also seen a two week old as late as August. The reverse would start accordingly, depending on weather. We sat on a hill on a route south of Twisp one year (58 or 59) when does were getting out of Dodge in late March, some with wobblers in tow. They would get to staging areas and sit for weeks. I’ve seen migrations heading to “happy places” in June when there was still snow at 3000. Only for moms and babies to halt on a particular knob heading into the Pasayten and spending weeks there. Just when you think you have them figured out. Mother Nature will humble you.

[NOCK NOCK]

Fawns in April? I always thought they dropped closer to the end of May. 

They do. and into June.  Much earlier, and much later will surely see little chance of survival.  Remember, deer have been around much longer than any human as we know them, their breeding/gestation period/birthing/mothering etc, knows exactly what to do. and when to do it. The species survival depends on that.