What would you do?

[Platensek-po]

Make Blacktail 3pt min, except any buck for youth. Or even 2pt min. We obviously don't have the same issues with BT as we are currently seeing with MD and WT, but I do think an APR might be a welcome change.

To help MD and WT we just need to convert everything on the east side to thick stands of reprod, vine maple, devil's club, blackberry and salal. 

Why an antler point restriction on Bt?? I’m not sure I understand that one. BT numbers are doing great and I’m not sure I understand the need for an APR?

[Pacific Ghost]

Make Blacktail 3pt min, except any buck for youth. Or even 2pt min. We obviously don't have the same issues with BT as we are currently seeing with MD and WT, but I do think an APR might be a welcome change.

To help MD and WT we just need to convert everything on the east side to thick stands of reprod, vine maple, devil's club, blackberry and salal. 

Why an antler point restriction on Bt?? I’m not sure I understand that one. BT numbers are doing great and I’m not sure I understand the need for an APR?

Just a personal preference based on a belief that doing so would lead to a higher concentration of mature deer while still allowing greater opportunity for the younger generation. 75% of the bucks harvested in my home unit are spikes and fork, while 95% are 3 pt or smaller.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Make Blacktail 3pt min, except any buck for youth. Or even 2pt min. We obviously don't have the same issues with BT as we are currently seeing with MD and WT, but I do think an APR might be a welcome change.

To help MD and WT we just need to convert everything on the east side to thick stands of reprod, vine maple, devil's club, blackberry and salal. 

The Blacktail in the north Puget Sound are taking a beating.🤬

[Platensek-po]

Make Blacktail 3pt min, except any buck for youth. Or even 2pt min. We obviously don't have the same issues with BT as we are currently seeing with MD and WT, but I do think an APR might be a welcome change.

To help MD and WT we just need to convert everything on the east side to thick stands of reprod, vine maple, devil's club, blackberry and salal. 

Why an antler point restriction on Bt?? I’m not sure I understand that one. BT numbers are doing great and I’m not sure I understand the need for an APR?

Just a personal preference based on a belief that doing so would lead to a higher concentration of mature deer while still allowing greater opportunity for the younger generation. 75% of the bucks harvested in my home unit are spikes and fork, while 95% are 3 pt or smaller.

Gotya. I was just curious if there was another reason. I think doing a 3pt restriction might be a bit much. Black tails are already pretty hard to hunt as is. Although I dunno I haven’t actually looked at harvest numbers much either. If I could hunt the evergreen state college woods I could get a giant mature bt every year.🤪

[NOCK NOCK]

Predator reduction is not as simple as it is easy to say.  Baiting/Hounds both controlled by voters=Next to zero of a chance to change that, No matter who's the director or on the commish.

Increase predator bag limits as high as you want, not going to drastically change the amount of cats killed. 90% of hunters never see 1 let alone have the chance to kill multiples.

Bears, Don't kill enough deer yearly to make a big difference.

Wolves best of luck EVER getting to hunt/control that population.

Coyotes, Hasn't been a limit for a long time= Do they have a HUGE effect on deer?  IMHO, No.

I'm all for predator reduction,,,,,,,,,Logically its not going to happen as easy as we wish! WE can beotch about it all year long on HW but that does not fix the problem.

[NOCK NOCK]

Most of the suggestions fall into one of two categories, limit hunter opportunity or do something about predators which everyone seems to agree won't happen.
That seems to be exactly the prescription the anti-hunters are giving us to swallow.

Hunters report kills of 20,000. Using very conservative numbers predators kill 100,000. The solution is to restrict hunting opportunities. So now the 3% of population that hunts declines further. Hunting license revenues drop. Pittman Robertson funds drop. In return 10,000 fewer deer are harvested by hunters.

Is that a good solution?

How many deer are killed but not reported? How about poached? Tribal kills?   

[Humptulips]

Several points since my last post.
Point restrictions: What is the point in point restrictions? Do you think does are not getting bred? It is the does that have to be protected. Stuff like this is what the anti-hunters want. Less Opportunity to drive hunter numbers down even more.
Roadkill: It is something completely out of our control and at least around here pretty infrequent. If it was common it would be because we had plenty of deer.
My point before was we are coming up with ideas to reduce hunter opportunity. That is exactly what the antis want. Why help them out?
An observation that tells me where the problem is. Two years ago, I had the Promised Land Permit from Rayonier. This is about 20,000 acres. On the last day of access, I drove through after an early morning snowstorm. I cut 5 fresh separate cougar tracks. Those 5 cougars are going to kill probably about 250 ungulates in a years' time. Hunters are going to take less than 10% of that, probably less than 5%. Can you see where the problem is? It used to be a great place to hunt. It is not anymore. Back in the day it was notable if you saw a cougar track. Solve this problem and you solve the problems with deer hunting.

[Bob33]

My point before was we are coming up with ideas to reduce hunter opportunity. That is exactly what the antis want. Why help them out?

Exactly right.

[baldopepper]

Several points since my last post.
Point restrictions: What is the point in point restrictions? Do you think does are not getting bred? It is the does that have to be protected. Stuff like this is what the anti-hunters want. Less Opportunity to drive hunter numbers down even more.
Roadkill: It is something completely out of our control and at least around here pretty infrequent. If it was common it would be because we had plenty of deer.
My point before was we are coming up with ideas to reduce hunter opportunity. That is exactly what the antis want. Why help them out?
An observation that tells me where the problem is. Two years ago, I had the Promised Land Permit from Rayonier. This is about 20,000 acres. On the last day of access, I drove through after an early morning snowstorm. I cut 5 fresh separate cougar tracks. Those 5 cougars are going to kill probably about 250 ungulates in a years' time. Hunters are going to take less than 10% of that, probably less than 5%. Can you see where the problem is? It used to be a great place to hunt. It is not anymore. Back in the day it was notable i⁹f you saw a cougar track. Solve this problem and you solve the problems with deer hunting.

What I was kind of subtley pointing out when I used their numbers to point out Deer mortality numbers was what you are alluding to.  In reality, hunting is one of the minor  contributors to the decline of the deer herds. We can adjust apr rules, juggle season lengths, restrict a few.more units- on and on  but in the grand scale their own numbers show that hunting is not a major factor in the herds decline.  I think we all.agree there are numerous factors, but like any problem,
  we should start with the biggest cause and work our way down. Anyone in a management position who doesn't see that should not be in a management position.  To use that position as a bridge for an agenda that is not in the animals best interest is beyond shameful

[Kola16]

Mandate all deer to wear k-kevlar vests.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Coyotes, Hasn't been a limit for a long time= Do they have a HUGE effect on deer?  IMHO, No.

Wrong. Studies have shown that coyotes are the biggest killer of deer fawns. In one study....... and there have been quite a few......

"Later, Miller went on to conduct a second study in Southwest Georgia on 2 sections of land.  One section of 11,000 acres, 23 coyotes and 3 bobcats were trapped and on another 7,000 acres no trapping was done. The results were staggering.  In the trapped area, 2 out of every 3 does had fawns. In contrast, in the un-trapped area only 1 out of 28 does had fawns."

[duckmen1]

I would be fine seeing a 2 point minimum on blacktail. I am not against seeing a spike shot or shooting one but I would be fine not being able to shoot them either if it would help make better hunting. I would not go any more than 2 point minimum as some of these blacktails are big old fork horns at mature age.

[NOCK NOCK]

Coyotes, Hasn't been a limit for a long time= Do they have a HUGE effect on deer?  IMHO, No.

Wrong. Studies have shown that coyotes are the biggest killer of deer fawns. In one study....... and there have been quite a few......

"Later, Miller went on to conduct a second study in Southwest Georgia on 2 sections of land.  One section of 11,000 acres, 23 coyotes and 3 bobcats were trapped and on another 7,000 acres no trapping was done. The results were staggering.  In the trapped area, 2 out of every 3 does had fawns. In contrast, in the un-trapped area only 1 out of 28 does had fawns."

My Opinion is wrong?       it's just an opinion..... opinion's are neither right or wrong.

Sorry, did not script it properly. HUGE meaning HUGE, like 10,s of 1'000's


Anyhoo, the point was we have a slim chance of changing our predator kill numbers.

[NOCK NOCK]

My point before was we are coming up with ideas to reduce hunter opportunity. That is exactly what the antis want. Why help them out?

Exactly right.

Hunters/hunting are usually blamed for the extinction(or close too it) of griz/wolves/buffalo

Hunter restrictions have played a large part in their recovery, so they(restrictions) can work. IMO

Don't get me wrong, I HATE to see opportunity taken away too,
so Yes, even if we only "save" 10k deer a year, that's a start.

[buckfvr]

Several points since my last post.
Point restrictions: What is the point in point restrictions? Do you think does are not getting bred? It is the does that have to be protected. Stuff like this is what the anti-hunters want. Less Opportunity to drive hunter numbers down even more.
Roadkill: It is something completely out of our control and at least around here pretty infrequent. If it was common it would be because we had plenty of deer.
My point before was we are coming up with ideas to reduce hunter opportunity. That is exactly what the antis want. Why help them out?
An observation that tells me where the problem is. Two years ago, I had the Promised Land Permit from Rayonier. This is about 20,000 acres. On the last day of access, I drove through after an early morning snowstorm. I cut 5 fresh separate cougar tracks. Those 5 cougars are going to kill probably about 250 ungulates in a years' time. Hunters are going to take less than 10% of that, probably less than 5%. Can you see where the problem is? It used to be a great place to hunt. It is not anymore. Back in the day it was notable i⁹f you saw a cougar track. Solve this problem and you solve the problems with deer hunting.

What I was kind of subtley pointing out when I used their numbers to point out Deer mortality numbers was what you are alluding to.  In reality, hunting is one of the minor  contributors to the decline of the deer herds. We can adjust apr rules, juggle season lengths, restrict a few.more units- on and on  but in the grand scale their own numbers show that hunting is not a major factor in the herds decline.  I think we all.agree there are numerous factors, but like any problem,
  we should start with the biggest cause and work our way down. Anyone in a management position who doesn't see that should not be in a management position.  To use that position as a bridge for an agenda that is not in the animals best interest is beyond shameful

By far, the easiest way for wdfw to manage is to manage hunters first and foremost.  Everything else is mostly left to sort itsself out.