Wolf numbers higher than state will admit

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Always have been since the start.  We have/had the most biased group of Bio's and decision makers ever known.  I have personally sat at behind close doors Region 1. Disrtict 1 meetings and witnessed it.  All the way back when the Bio's were concealing den site location from the law enforcement  who were responding to calls.  Most of that agency is one deceptive chit show.  I saw 24 years of it.  I've attended employee "regional meetings" in Region 5,6 and 1.  They were always brain washing and heavy petting events for the upper management.  The buzz word at every one of them was "constituents". 
Total politics in play on this subject....

I remember before I was fired they claimed 206 wolves and 33 packs.  Do the math at 4-6 viable pups per female and tell me their not snow balling the public.  Their deception even worse on cats.... Ask the deer and elk bio out of colville why she has predator track tats up and down her arms.   

You do know they're married. The conflict woman and the wolf bio....

SSSHHHHHH!  yer lettin the cat outta the bag....no one knows that secret because she doesn't share his name.   

This is just one little data point on the WDFW corruption.

[Skyvalhunter]

Seems WDFW has their priorities in the wrong order per their WOLF CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT PLAN.
"Maintain healthy and robust ungulate populations in the state that provide abundant prey for wolves and other predators as well as ample harvest opportunities for hunters."

[Pathfinder101]

Are you guys reading the same link I did?  What I read was about wolf groups questioning the Colville Tribe's wolf numbers (saying they are too high) and WDFW backing the tribe up....

[TylerMulie]

Id think so, I had a 85yd encounter with a pack of 13 wolves this deer season, really cool experience. no collars on any of the wolves.

[Skyvalhunter]

How many of those 13 are still alive? 

[boneaddict]

Didn't read the article. But to the title of the thread they have been lying and underestimating since day one, why should it be any different now?   This has been one giant scam since the beginning. 

[hunter399]

Never had a wolf on camera that has a collar.
So ya , plenty that the state doesn't know about.

[BUTTER]

Wdfw can't do anything about the wolves. They can't even get a spring bear season. Buckle up wolves will eat all the elk and it won't be stopped

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

Id think so, I had a 85yd encounter with a pack of 13 wolves this deer season, really cool experience. no collars on any of the wolves.

If you find wolves without a Collar you need to report it... getting Collars on wolves is actually a really good thing. I was a skeptic myself. I had wolves finally show up on my property in late '23. Last spring I got a cam picture of a wolf with meat in its mouth indicating likely a den site near by. Was confirmed and a collar was on at least one of the wolves a couple months later. The collars helps because it shows distribution. It also helps prove depredation. How many "unconfirmed" depredations have you heard about. Pretty easy to confirm a depredation when the collar shows the wolf over the carcass. I know there maybe some skepticism about this but its better to get collars on them. There is now another pack/breeding pair on the books which aids recovery goals to delist, shows more distribution, and tracks them for depredation.

[chukardogs]

 After having an interaction with several wolves a few years ago while hunting, I was told by a FS official that the tribe, who was monitoring the Strawberry pack had told him that the alpha male of the Strawberry pack had disbanded the pack and then moved North to an area around Frosty Creek. The FS official was told this wasn't an abnormal situation with wolf packs.
 I'm no wolf expert or animal biologist and had never gave any thought to the health or hierarchy of a wolf pack but, just as an older male, I can totally understand the emotional state that would drive me to say, done, I want you all gone. Wish I'd actually known that was a...........nevermind.
 If this is something that happens with wolves, it doesn't take a brain surgeon with a PHD in math, to see what could happen to wolf population numbers in a hurry. Over the years, I've read with wolves, when a male gets to adulthood, he has to make a decision. Either he's willing to take a back seat to the alpha or he's not. If he thinks he's a tough guy, he takes on the alpha and then afterwards, either he or the alpha has to take their satchel and hit the road. I've read that the same basic thing happens with the females and I'll leave it at that.
 If you look at the most recent wolf pack data on the WDFW, the Strawberry pack is still intact and based on the country they're holding, another alpha male must have taken over and thrived.
 If the Wolf population can be that volatile and constantly fluctuating, how is it anyone believes the WDFW or the tribe can actually have an accurate population number? It makes no sense to believe that the number of wolves they have on their charts is up to date or accurate. The best anyone can hope for is the numbers are their best guess, based on the data they have. Or, if you believe they're just out right lying for their own biases, then the numbers have no useful value whatsoever. 
 Just based on how mother nature works, if the wolf packs have enough food (animals, wild or domesticated) to fulfill their nutritional needs, their numbers keep growing. If they don't have the nutrition needed, the pack will start to dwindle in numbers by smaller litter sizes and the dispersal of members as needed. We've all read about wolves that decide to go on walkabouts, traveling insane miles to find their new home. Example; the female that started somewhere in Northeast Oregon and settled in Northern California a few years back. 
 Someone please explain to me how the monitors know a pack is non-breeding? What is the criteria that would determine whether it's a breeding pack or non-breeding pack? Are we supposed to believe that the alpha, just isn't in the mood?   

[HighGrouseHunt]

To the last post:

- WDFW counts packs once each year, in the winter when packs are the most cohesive, and when most of the pup mortality that might occur prior to the next breeding season has already occurred. This is the time of year when the wolf population is at its annual minimum (all undocumented mortality or dispersal for the prior year is encompassed in those numbers).  This is also the time of year when most of the events like the “breeders getting kicked out” has already occurred, if it is going to occur.

- breeding pairs are defined as 2 adult wolves  and 2 pups surviving until December 31. As you point out, nearly all packs “breed”, but there can be a variety of reasons for litter failure. These emphasis on “breeding pairs” recognizes that packs that successfully raise pups are essentially the biological drivers of population growth.

[chukardogs]

 Thank you! That makes far more sense than the male just wasn't that into her.
 All of it still leaves a lot of room for the numbers to be skewed. If there's wolves, male or female that have been kicked out or left the pack on their own that aren't collared, they may not be accounted for in the year end tally. 42 packs equalling 260 animals means each pack has approx 6 dogs. 6 dogs seems low considering we hear stories of packs being seen with a dozen dogs in them. If these stories are even close to accurate, the total number of wolves could be considerably more than 260. 

[Skyvalhunter]

I am not so sure I will ever see the pack distribution across the state before any delisting occurs. They always seem to move the goal posts to prevent this from happening. The next step is to tie any attempt up in the courts and find loop hole to stop it.

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Like any science, it can be a numbers game.  However WDFW wants to spin it, its all smoke and mirrors.  So in 2019 we had 108 wolves and 21 packs.  2023 numbers indicate 260 wolves and 42 packs.  So in 4 years WDFW has double the population?  Great job...now why not do that with our deer population?  I have also noticed with the doubling in population depredations have stayed the same hmmmm...I guess its all in how they call the kill and how much money in the budget they have to pay the rancher.  I have personally been on cat kills where they told the home owners they are calling it a coyote kill because the depredation money ran out.  If it was deemed a cat kill they would have to pay.  Its always a fight at a wolf kill to call it one, ask the ranchers in the NE.   
Whether its population numbers or depredations, i don't trust these folks.  After my 24 years working for them I have seen it all.  Getting rid of the commission is a great start, but there is still alot of bias imbedded deep within....
In my opinion these population have more than double in 4 years.  These things have dispersed to a point that WDFW has no idea how many they have.   

[chukarchaser]