what does a ndn have to do???

[sovereignwarrior509]

why does anyone who is not native american. feel like native american hunters are stealing all the animals. its not a tradition to over hunt or over fish. we simply gather enough to keep our traditional foods on our tables, for our children, and friends alike. crappy hunters come from all ethnicity groups, don't judge us by our richard craniums. its not our fault, that our treaty rights are protected by a treaty we did not write for had to sign to live. where our people was aloud to live and practice these rights. enjoy the hunt and always respect the kill... please its my 1st post on here. be honest,fair,open minded.

[huntnphool]

Welcome to the site warrior

Go through the old threads and you will find many topics started on this subject. You really only need to read through one of them though, they all sound pretty much the same so dont bother reading them all.

[Huntboy]

Welcome, glad you joined up.

[Whitefoot]

yeah!  have fun with this thred.... it's all the same threads one way or the other...    It wil all come back to the same blah blah blah...

[Alan K]

It's natives like Whitefoot who kill 6 branched bulls in a single year in a unit that takes non-natives several years to draw that pisses people off.

I don't think that people have much of a problem with you guys going out and taking a few cows a year for the meat. The problem comes from when you guys go out and knock down several trophy bulls in a single year, especially in trophy / draw units, like it's nothing. Of course you're going to catch flack for it.

I've got my own problems with the natives here on the west side.  Namely the Skok tribe.  It's sad that locals honk their horns if the elk take a step out into the fields in the daylight for fear that the indians will see them and shoot all the bulls.

Also, like someone said on another thread. . .  It's not so much a dislike for the indians as a people, it's a dislike for the indians that earn you guys this reputation.

[rose-n-arrows]

I think a lot of people are envious of opportunities that they don't have and maybe imagine that they'd be so appreciative and honorable in the same situation.  When the Lakosky's have one Big Buck Down after another on their program, they don't appear to be holding a religious ceremony to bless every animal.  In all of those areas where people have the opportunity to take lots of game, they do.  I don't think it's a cultural thing or anything Sovereign Warrior has to explain.  It's human beings given an opportunity to be greedy and it happens every day all of the time.  How many of you wish you could hunt for a living?  We watch the Primos guys, etc. and wish we could be in their shoes.  Why?  Because we need that much meat?  We love to hunt and will hunt as much as our resources allow.  I cringe when more and more people show up in the areas where I love to hunt, and hope nobody has noticed the bull I"m hoping to get this year, but it's just life.  Don't waste energy being ticked off.  Plan your hunt and enjoy it.

[KillBilly]

It's natives like Whitefoot who kill 6 branched bulls in a single year in a unit that takes non-natives several years to draw that pisses people off.

I don't think that people have much of a problem with you guys going out and taking a few cows a year for the meat. The problem comes from when you guys go out and knock down several trophy bulls in a single year, especially in trophy / draw units, like it's nothing. Of course you're going to catch flack for it.

I've got my own problems with the natives here on the west side.  Namely the Skok tribe.  It's sad that locals honk their horns if the elk take a step out into the fields in the daylight for fear that the indians will see them and shoot all the bulls.

Also, like someone said on another thread. . .  It's not so much a hate for the indians as a people, it's a hate for the indians that earn you guys this reputation.

It's legal for him to do it. You have no argument. You may be jealous but you can't argue with legal

[Curly]

Alan K hit the nail on the head:

I don't think that people have much of a problem with you guys going out and taking a few cows a year for the meat. The problem comes from when you guys go out and knock down several trophy bulls in a single year, especially in trophy / draw units, like it's nothing. Of course you're going to catch flack for it.

Plus, it seems that those few natives that go out and give the rest of you a bad name don't really get bitched out by the rest of you.  They keep doing it year after year.

We always hear about how its tradition and that is why indians get to go kill big bucks and bulls.  But if its tradition, then why drive around on the roads and shoot them with rifles?  Shouldn't they be shooting them with recurves if it was about tradition?

[Michelle_Nelson]

It's natives like Whitefoot who kill 6 branched bulls in a single year in a unit that takes non-natives several years to draw that pisses people off.

I don't think that people have much of a problem with you guys going out and taking a few cows a year for the meat. The problem comes from when you guys go out and knock down several trophy bulls in a single year, especially in trophy / draw units, like it's nothing. Of course you're going to catch flack for it.

I've got my own problems with the natives here on the west side.  Namely the Skok tribe.  It's sad that locals honk their horns if the elk take a step out into the fields in the daylight for fear that the indians will see them and shoot all the bulls.

Also, like someone said on another thread. . .  It's not so much a hate for the indians as a people, it's a hate for the indians that earn you guys this reputation.

It's legal for him to do it. You have no argument. You may be jealous but you can't argue with legal

And at one point in time Whites were allowed to own slaves.  Whats your point?  Just because it's a law doesn't make it right.

Their are bad apple in every bunch.  Guarantee their are far more white poachers than Indian poachers.  I dont think any one person should be able to just go out and take multiple Elk, the state really doesn't have that reasourse to support it for very long.  The tribes need to wise up and start taking the hunting in this state seriously.  Otherwise it is not going to be available for anyone.  I mean if you are really in need of the meat than maybe you should ask the government to sent you your quota of beef.

I do realize that not every indian is involved with this.  Just seams as though the tribe looks the other way on a lot of these cases.

By the way welcome to the site. 

[stumprat]

why does anyone who is not native american. feel like native american hunters are stealing all the animals. its not a tradition to over hunt or over fish. we simply gather enough to keep our traditional foods on our tables, for our children, and friends alike. crappy hunters come from all ethnicity groups, don't judge us by our richard craniums. its not our fault, that our treaty rights are protected by a treaty we did not write for had to sign to live. where our people was aloud to live and practice these rights. enjoy the hunt and always respect the kill... please its my 1st post on here. be honest,fair,open minded.

Welcome to the site.
When I lived up north I grew up with alot of kids in the Puyallup tribe. I have alot of indian friends. The vast majority of them were great people.
My rants about the tribes have to do with what I have witnessed in the field. Cases in point......
The Puyallups have alot of members that net the river illegally such as above thier ceded part of the river. I will say the tribal cops have tried hard to curb this as I have seen them pull quite a few nets and give the fish to people fishing the bank. It's not the whole tribe, but the few who do it do so so blatantly they draw alot of attention.

As far as the hunting issue. The muckleshoot tribe has decimated the elk herds in the white river unit. Hell they have even been caught hunting in the park!
But what really got me fired up about the way they hunt is up in the Wilkeson area. When I could run my hounds for bear in August. The tribal hunters were in there deer hunting. I personally witnessed many of thier hunting practices. One of which was to road hunt and if the deer did not fall in the road, drive off to find another. Not only have I witnessed this many times , my dogs found many fresh kills no more than 20-25 yards off the road.

When I rant about these things it is not meant to your people as a whole. But quite a few have EARNED a horrible reputation in these areas.

[WAPITIHUNTER]

The majority of the native americans are not the problem. There are those that take their one animal and go home. I just spoke with one of them recently. He was with the Squaxin Island tribe. He was very respectful and he was a true elk enthusiast. He recently took a 7x8 bull up near packwood and that is the only elk he took. He was also upset that there are some of the tribes that are screwing it up for him even. He was not happy about the public image that has been placed on him from a select few slob tribe hunters. He was very pointed about the fact that they only hunt in their traditional hunting grounds which are actually right where I live. He was upset at all the slob whites that dump all their garbage on the timber company land hence resulting in the closure of such lands. He no longer hunts in a large portion of their traditional area because of this reason. Not to mention that for a time they where voluntarily cleaning up all the trash and garbage left by the slob whites on the timber co. lands to secure entry rights but this was not to last. When I mentioned that I had a big bull tag he got very excited and congratulated me on the opportunity to have a truly majestic bull. He was the type of person that I could be a close friend with. It is not the majority that is the problem with either side. It is a select few very unsavory individuals that are creating the bad image for each side. I would venture to say that the non-native american poachers damage the image of hunters in general worse than the native american hunters.
I personally have no problem with a tribal member killing some elk to feed the tribe and for ceremonial purposes. What I do have a problem with is hearing how 6 or 8 elk get dumped and only a few hind quarters and straps get taken and the rest is left to rot. The funny thing is everybody automatically assumes that a tribal hunter did it even though nobody actually witnessed it. I would also venture to say that some of these instances are from slob white poachers. Basically it boils down to a select few crappy people making the rest of us look bad.

By the way: Welcome sovereignwarrior

[huntnphool]

When the Lakosky's have one Big Buck Down after another on their program, they don't appear to be holding a religious ceremony to bless every animal.

 Rose, there is a big difference between applying in several states, to draw a tag and taking an animal in those individual states, and taking multiple animals in one state or one unit for that matter. Same with the Premos, Realtree, Mossyoak, Eastman guys, etc. They have several people associated with the shows that apply, themselves, the camera people, etc. When one of them draws for one of the MANY states/provinces they apply for, they video it for their shows, that's why you see so many hunts.

 Its ridiculous for for you to compare these shows or people to the natives or tribes that are causing the issues we have been discussing, its night and day.

[rose-n-arrows]

Huntnphool-I assure you, I feel your pain.  We have to deal with meth head poachers, blow hard jerks who take multiple elk every year using their wifes tags and kids tags, who then position themselves as spokespersons for the sport of archery...I have attended meetings at WDFW, talked to the people in Olympia, been involved with the Washington state hunting committee (WSAA )...I've tried to be a part of something that can change all of this stuff that goes on.  When I have more time available in the future, I will become more involved again.  It's not just a cultural thing, it's not just Native Americans.  That was my point.  It's every area.  Some legal, some illegal.  As per the Lakosky's, you missed my point.  I want there to be elk year after year and would love to see management plans that truly reflect a means to that end.   

[huntnphool]

As per the Lakosky's, you missed my point.

 Are you saying you would like to see a limit on how many animals you can take country wide as apposed to statewide?

[robb92]

As per the Lakosky's, you missed my point.

 Are you saying you would like to see a limit on how many animals you can take country wide as apposed to statewide?

I hope not!

[adam.WI]

Welcome to the site.

Now for my opinion. I have no issues with the tribes living in a traditional manner which requires hunting and fishing. That being said, back when the treaties were signed in order to preserve this way of life, I don't believe jet boats and semi-auto high caliber rifles were around.... maybe I'm wrong.

Technology has improved the ways, and effectiveness of our sports. If people chose to hunt with modern day equipment perhaps they should follow modern day laws.

[Alan K]

It's natives like Whitefoot who kill 6 branched bulls in a single year in a unit that takes non-natives several years to draw that pisses people off.

I don't think that people have much of a problem with you guys going out and taking a few cows a year for the meat. The problem comes from when you guys go out and knock down several trophy bulls in a single year, especially in trophy / draw units, like it's nothing. Of course you're going to catch flack for it.

I've got my own problems with the natives here on the west side.  Namely the Skok tribe.  It's sad that locals honk their horns if the elk take a step out into the fields in the daylight for fear that the indians will see them and shoot all the bulls.

Also, like someone said on another thread. . .  It's not so much a hate for the indians as a people, it's a hate for the indians that earn you guys this reputation.

It's legal for him to do it. You have no argument. You may be jealous but you can't argue with legal

KillBilly I never said anything about legal or illegal. I don't even see where I put forth an argument like you said. . . These guys seem to have no idea why people get all pissed off about tribal hunting.  I just said why.  

[huntnphool]

Technology has improved the ways, and effectiveness of our sports.

 Yeah, did they really pull wicker baskets, full of shrimp, up from 300', in hood canal by hand with hemp rope back when the treaties were signed? Uh..........NO!!!, yet they get half the harvest today.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Shouldn't they be shooting them with recurves if it was about tradition?

  how about selfbows, flatbows and spears, recurves are "new" technology. Making a bow out of Vine Maple should be part of a ceremony. Actually I have no problem with most tribal hunters, It is the minority that hunt and the few that do so with respect to the animal are not going to make the news. It the ones that blatantly rape the resource that make the news and get our attention, just like any poachers. My main concern is the lack of consequence for offenders. Our WDFW and State police have no jurisdiction, and Tribal Police don't care. It is these same "Natives" that badmouth the white guys and talk about how they were wronged, and then take advantage of any government benefit or program available. Sorry I could go on forever. When I was little both of my granparents lived on a reservation and I used to spend summers there, most of the people I met and most of the kids I played with were just normal people. Racism come from EITHER side stating a difference. WE all live in America and should all have the same government, laws, rights, and privileges. According to the history books the white man won a long and bloody war, and the United States of America is occupied by a sovereign nation within its borders? I wonder who really won?

[rose-n-arrows]

As per the Lakosky's, you missed my point.

 Are you saying you would like to see a limit on how many animals you can take country wide as apposed to statewide?

???Where did you get that idea? 

[WAPITIHUNTER]

 I have no issues with the tribes living in a traditional manner which requires hunting and fishing.
Back when the treaties were signed all the white man had was .45-70 single shots and percussion guns. Maybe if the Indians have to use traditional tackle according to the time when the treaties were signed then maybe all the Modern hunters on here should also revert back to a single shot  .45-70 blackpowder cartridge. Seems only fair don't you think. You are assuming that the Indians were so stupid that their technology would have never evolved into anything else.

[furbearer365]

Does it make it any less traditional to buy a tag like everyone else and go into the field and kill one.  If the Indians don't overkill like most of you Indians claim, then why do you need to hunt using a treaty or on a rez.  Buy a tag, kill the one bull that you say you kill now, and do it in traditional ways and there you go.  It blows me away that you are so worried about tradition when it comes to killing elk but every other day you want to live the modern technical life of today's society.  QUIT USING THE "WELL IT IS LEGAL AINT IT" ARGUMENT BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL FOR ME TO SMOKE AND DRINK BUT I DON'T DO EITHER.  IF ANY OF YOU INDIANS GAVE A S**T ABOUT ELK AND THEIR EXISTENCE YOU WOULD BUY THE TAG AND KILL THE ONE THAT YOU ARE ALOUD PER YEAR AND MOVE ON.

[rose-n-arrows]

The state of Washington has a pathetic record for dealing with poaching.  If they can't get a handle on stuff OUTSIDE of a sovereign nation, where they're supposed to have some authority, how in the heck are they going to have any control anywhere?  Most punitive emphasis is placed on fishing related crimes, so the deer and elk poachers get away with all kinds of crud.  When they get caught, they might pay a fine.  Their hunting priveleges are revoked, and next thing you know, there they are again. One of the WDFW guys I talked to said it has to do with the judges that throw everything out of court.  I know the game wardens are trying-but it's like the cops arresting some drug dealer only to have him out on the streets in 24 hours.  The Lakosky's can kill all the big bucks they're legally permitted to kill.  My point was that they are harvesting as many as they're allowed.  People don't just hunt for meat.  Poaching, on the other hand, and flagrant wasting is another story.  

[huntnphool]

???Where did you get that idea?

About the Lakoski's you wrote;

In all of those areas where people have the opportunity to take lots of game, they do.

 Again, unlike the natives they take what the states they hunt allow them to take and nothing more. Since they follow the laws by each state, what other ways would you suggest they be limited? You said I missed your point, how about expaining it.

 

[huntnphool]

The Lakosky's can kill all the big bucks they're legally permitted to kill.  My point was that they are harvesting as many as they're allowed.

 Correct you are, the difference is they dont do it all in one state. Nobody would have a problem if Whitefoot applied in 50 states for tags and killed a animal in every state he drew a tag for, just like the Lakoski's. The issue is when a couple people take several animals out of a already declining heard and cant be held accountable for it.

 Lets not get it twisted, a comment comparing the Lakoski's taking multiple animals each year in individual states to the natives blatant overharvesting is ignorant, illiterate and uneducated.

[adam.WI]

 I have no issues with the tribes living in a traditional manner which requires hunting and fishing.
Back when the treaties were signed all the white man had was .45-70 single shots and percussion guns. Maybe if the Indians have to use traditional tackle according to the time when the treaties were signed then maybe all the Modern hunters on here should also revert back to a single shot  .45-70 blackpowder cartridge. Seems only fair don't you think. You are assuming that the Indians were so stupid that their technology would have never evolved into anything else.

Exactly, we all go back to the methods used back then and follow the same laws set up back then, perfect right...... NO that's right the population has dramatically increased and the technology has changed so logically the laws that govern the harvest of game change as well, right........ No, it changes for the majority, not the minority

I also never said that I thought the "indians"(are they from asia), or perhaps the native americans were stupid to the point that there technology wouldn't evolve. My point is if they want to hunt based on out dated treaties then they should use the methods that the treaties were based upon.

[rose-n-arrows]

 Lets not get it twisted, a comment comparing the Lakoski's taking multiple animals each year in individual states to the natives blatant overharvesting is ignorant, illiterate and uneducated.

[/quote]

That wasn't necessary.  Go kick a girlscout, it will probably make you feel better.

[huntnphool]

That wasn't necessary.[/quote]

 I'm quite sure Lee and Tiff would say the same about your comment.

[rose-n-arrows]

Look-you have your mind made up as to what I meant by what I said about Lee and Tiffany.  If I want to argue, I'll go to the Archery talk campfire PRM.  You had a specific issue in mind when I posted and any efforts on my part to convince you of what I meant by what I said are futile.  So be mad at me. Did you read anything else I posted or just the lines next to "Lakosky"?

[huntnphool]

My point was that they are harvesting as many as they're allowed.

 And at the same time comparing them to the natives overharvesting, ITS NOT THE SAME and should not have even been suggested.

So be mad at me.

 Rose, I am not mad at you, I just don't agree with your comment, and if I came across that way then I am sorry. When you make a comment like that its not only the Lakoski's that will take offense to it but everyone that hunts multiple states, that includes me. In no way should my multi state hunting be compared or associated with the natives taking multiple animals in one state or area.

 I did read everything you had to say and I don't waste energy being ticked off, but that doesn't mean I agree with or condone what they are doing, and will voice my opinion when I feel I should.

 


 

[ICEMAN]

Ain't race relations neat?