Anderson new WDFW director

[Wacenturion]

As Dave said, the first real acid test will be whether Anderson does indeed make some changes.  I hope he does, but to be honest it will surprise me.  I watched the WDFW Commission meeting replay from September 12th last night on cable, where they explained the Director decision and discussed several other agency issues.  The whole process just seems so milk toasty anymore from what commission meetings were say 30 years ago.  Maybe it's just me.

Dave I could feel your enthusiasm rising, or should I say your blood pressure (lol), as I read your reply.  First, for all of you who don't know, Dave has been an effective advocate for you, the sportsman, for as long as I have known him, and in fact even before I first met him.  That takes in quite a few years to say the least.  He has from time to time taken his fair share of undeserved negative hits, both from WDFW and some sportsmen.  We can all be thankful for what he does for us.  Keep on top of things Dave, we all appreciate it.

Resource allocation, that's the big one.  It had a devastating effect on opportunity.  Think about it....even back when you could buy an archery/muzzle stamp for $5 and use it in conjunction with you rifle tag, you could still only kill one animal that that tag or stamp was specific for.  You just had more choices and could expand or lengthen your season.  Only down side was the potential to also expand pressure.  Pressure though is pressure, whether is spread out or compressed.  The real issue is hunter numbers at a given time.  Then again common sense tells us that just like only being able to kill one animal during the year, individuals can only take off so much time during that same year.  Again pressure becomes somewhat self limiting.

What WDFW doesn't see is the larger picture, that being that every additional bit of opportunity a sportsman has and uses, the larger the beneficial effect it has on the state economy.  More sales of goods and services.  Conversely, reducing opportunity has the reverse effect.  For those of you that have hunted turkeys in and around Colville in the spring....just remove turkeys completely from the landscape up there and imagine the impact to the community and that area.  I use that example to validate my point.

Thirty plus years ago, when I lived just out of Ephrata and up on a hillside. the view the night before general hunting season in eastern Washington was spectacular.  It looked like a major invasion from the visual of hundreds to thousands of headlights on the freeways and roads after dark.  People heading over from all direction....deer hunters, duck hunters, uplands bird hunters all.  Before I left that area in the 80's that had subsided.  I'll wager that today that same view would be much less impressive.  A result of restricted opportunity, spreading the remaining opportunity and just as important, the lack of WDFW doing what was needed to be done management wise for consumptive species and users over the past few decades.....with a few exceptions.

 

      

[gunnarnewt]

I agree with Bobcat, as soon as we go to draw hunts, then they can liberalize the seasons and we can start having more time afield. I've said it before, I'm already spending money out of state knowing that it'll be 13 years before i can have another quality hunt in my home state. I would rather do it knowing my turn would come every 2 or 3 years instead.

[bearpaw]

If Washington went to a draw only it would be good for my business having more trophy quality animals around. But, I doubt it will ever happen, because the vast majority of hunters in this state want the most number of days in the field every year.

As a father and now grandfather, I would also not like to see it, because it would be hard to keep people in the sport if they only get to go deer and elk hunting every fifth or sixth year. I think our kids need to be able to go hunting every year.

[MtnMuley]

I agree.  I doubt we will ever see a draw system, but I'd be all for it.  It would be way too much of a revenue loss for the department, but I feel it would up the chance of trophy sized animals.  Over-pressure on the larger bucks in the rut has dwindled a big percentage of our larger bucks.  From the late rifle tags to the late bow season.  Then throw in a couple bad winters, and there goes the population even more.

[bearpaw]

I agree.  I doubt we will ever see a draw system, but I'd be all for it.  It would be way too much of a revenue loss for the department, but I feel it would up the chance of trophy sized animals.  Over-pressure on the larger bucks in the rut has dwindled a big percentage of our larger bucks.  From the late rifle tags to the late bow season.  Then throw in a couple bad winters, and there goes the population even more.

That's exactly where we are at here in NE WA.

I think the answer is to have an organized push for more trophy managed units but keep the rest of the state with over the counter tags. Trying to encourage the best of both worlds.

[MtnMuley]

Exactly.  I couldn't agree more on a plan that might have a chance of working.  The Desert Unit for example falls in this category.  Look at all the attention it gets from trophy hunters.  I feel the hard part would be designating which areas would be the trophy areas.  There would be a lot of complaining from the groups that have camped they for years and years.  Land owners that lease the lands would also be affected. 

[bobcat]

As a father and now grandfather, I would also not like to see it, because it would be hard to keep people in the sport if they only get to go deer and elk hunting every fifth or sixth year. I think our kids need to be able to go hunting every year.

People could still hunt every year. Chances are, a person could draw a deer or an elk tag every year, but if not, there is always ducks, pheasants, grouse, coyotes, bear, cougar, chukar, turkey, rabbits, crows, quail, and probably more that I didn't think of. I don't see there being any lack of hunting opportunity if deer and elk tags were draw only.

[wolfbait]

I agree.  I doubt we will ever see a draw system, but I'd be all for it.  It would be way too much of a revenue loss for the department, but I feel it would up the chance of trophy sized animals.  Over-pressure on the larger bucks in the rut has dwindled a big percentage of our larger bucks.  From the late rifle tags to the late bow season.  Then throw in a couple bad winters, and there goes the population even more.

Add the wolves to your list, and the bad winters don't seem so bad. You are going to find that the wolves will be what will have the most impact on all of your hunting. It doesn't take to long either when you have WDFW releasing wolves on the sly. Do you think they are going to tell you that they put wolves in your backyard? Not.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I agree.  I doubt we will ever see a draw system, but I'd be all for it.  It would be way too much of a revenue loss for the department, but I feel it would up the chance of trophy sized animals.  Over-pressure on the larger bucks in the rut has dwindled a big percentage of our larger bucks.  From the late rifle tags to the late bow season.  Then throw in a couple bad winters, and there goes the population even more.

Add the wolves to your list, and the bad winters don't seem so bad. You are going to find that the wolves will be what will have the most impact on all of your hunting. It doesn't take to long either when you have WDFW releasing wolves on the sly. Do you think they are going to tell you that they put wolves in your backyard? Not.

Yep- That's why there is no hunting in WY, MT, and ID this year  

[Jekemi]

I don't know the previous directors as do many of you. I did not approve of Koenings handling of the department. A few simple thoughts about WDFW.
1. spend money on projects that generate revenue and enhance the hunting experience (wildlife watch - what a joke)
2. spend money on youth hunting and expanded youth hunter education - get the youth involved early
3. spend money attracting women to this great sport, hunting and fishing. 50% of the population but only a small % enjoys hunting. We need women involved for the future of hunting
4. spend money enhancing the speices, especially Deer, Turkey, and Pheasants. We have great waterfowl populations.
5. work more closely with the hunting organizations; DU, Grouse Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, etc. Those orgs. working closely with WDFW can only improve the habitat and game populations
6. Finally and most importantly - stress wildlife MANAGEMENT over the so called "natual ecosystem."

[Dave Workman]

Oh, where to begin.
First, thank you Wacenturion for your kind remarks. You're not so bad yourself! 

I guess we begin with bearpaw, mtnmuley, bobcat and gunnarnewt. You want to hunt under a permit system, move to Colorado. 

The WDFW would love to go to permits because it would be used as a means to further limit opportunity more than they already do.

bobcat: Your "people could still hunt every year" (for something else) idea doesn't wash for the tens of thousands of people who only hunt deer or elk. They don't want to hunt waterfowl or other game.

One person's idea of "quality" is another person's idea of exclusion; that is, keeping more people out of "your" woods during "your" season. As bearpaw noted, the "resource allocation" model was a brain fart of "greedy traditionalists" who were certainly encouraged and helped by a management philosophy that seemed to want to push people out of the woods. As Wacenturion said, Resource Allocation has been a disaster and has had a "devastating effect on opportunity." That's why I opposed it in the 1980s and why I oppose it today.

I'll never forget the conversation I had some 20 years ago with one of the big game managers in the agency who honest-to-gawd told me that he hoped one day people would think they had a great hunt if they got a chance to see some elk on a distant ridge or something, not necessarily put a bullet in one of them. What a bunch of nonsense!

The horse packers love the earlier elk season because they can pack their paying clients back into the Bob Marshall or Henry M. Jackson or William O. Douglas and make a buck, but that doesn't mean jack squat to the rest of us, who end up with an opportunity to go camping with guns.

The situation with mule deer is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Putting antler restrictions on to improve the herd following a tough winter made sense, but not for the initially suggested ten years and certainly not forever.
Here's what happens with shorter mule deer seasons: The herd gets to build up to a "near-healthy" level and then along comes another bad winter and SURPRISE! you get another winter die off allowing proponents of tight mule deer hunts to go back to the commission weeping into their crying towels and telling the commissioners that we need to maintain the shorter, lower harvest season with the antler restriction to build back the herd. Four or five years later, same thing all over again.

We could easily set aside a couple of units in Chelan and Okanogan and Ferry counties and open up the rest for any buck. After the rut, bucks are pretty much excess baggage, in a biological sense anyway.

Whitetail hunting up Northeast, I've already discussed.
Opening and closing dates... Blacktail and Mule Deer general buck starting no earlier than oct. 15 and ending no earlier than Oct. 31.

Bring back hound hunting for black bear and mountain lion.

Restore pheasant releases in EW in the basin (we used to have hunting that rivaled the Dakotas and we can have that again).

We have 100,000 fewer hunters in this state than we did a generation ago.  There is no reason, none, nada, zippo why those people should not have enormous hunting opportunities. Wacenturion recalls the $5 stamp to allow archery hunting (or black powder) outside the general season if you didn't notch a tag. What's wrong with that?

[bearpaw]

I guess we begin with bearpaw, mtnmuley, bobcat and gunnarnewt. You want to hunt under a permit system, move to Colorado. 

Dave, I think you misread my position on this. I said trophy animals would be good for my business but I said as a father and grandfather I would not want to see statewide draw permits.

I am on your side of that argument.......with the exception that I thought it wouldn't hurt to have a few more trophy deer hunts.

[bearpaw]

One more thing comes to mind, "MULTI-Season Permits" everybody loves getting those.....

That used to be the way it was for everyone, until resource allocation. But if you are willing to pay the big dollars for the license it's OK and even considered great to get to hunt with all weapons......hhhhmmmmmm

[Dave Workman]

Bearpaw: Perhaps I did misunderstand what you're saying.

Your second remark...amigo, I believe you have cracked a code 

[bobcat]

The way I see it is the multi-season permits are ok because they are very limited in number.