Wolf Impacts, WA Wildlife

[wolfbait]

He left? So soon!  It was probably his turn to feed the wolves anyway.

[denali]

http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/info/archieve/newspapers/viewnews.cfm?ID=6046

Federal and State agencies busier than ever

not a long article and worth the the time too read, maps out were we are heading I'm afraid.  


An analysis from Montana's 2003 wolf management plan puts the state's annual cost for wolves in the $907,000 to $948,000 range. That includes about $456,000 for wildlife biologists, operations and monitoring; $157,000 for an enforcement staff and operations; $54,000 for conservation education; $50,000 for fiscal, legal and administration costs; $50,000 for proactive, preventative efforts; and $100,000 for depredation and predator control. Another $40,000 to $81,000 is estimated to be needed to pay for livestock compensation.

"Everybody is worried about the money, and that's a fair question and a conundrum for all of us to be thinking about and to get our arms around," Carolyn Sime, Montana's wolf coordinator, said last week. "License revenue, in the end, is not going to match what we have been spending on average in Montana."

[bearpaw]

good information denali....thanks

[old cracker]

Hello all, I hope October was a good month for you. This wolf push by the wolf lovers has been a source of irritation to me for years. Most of us old timers saw this crap coming when the gov first started talking up the reintroduction of the wolf.
It took our fore fathers a lot of years to ride the west of that piece of vermin (wolf). The deck is stacked against common sense in dealing with the wolf, too many people earning a living by perpetrating the need for the wolf and the courts are all too eager to rule in favor of this perpetration. Now that most are awake to the true threat, we should monitor the politicians ( local/state/federal) that help in this wolf push and mike sure the world know what a nut they are and so them the power of the vote.
Thanks, Old cracker

[Gringo31]

Did anyone go to the Seattle meeting?  The Richland one was very anti wolf.  Just curious how Seattle went.

[wolfbait]

http://saveelk.com/wolf_039.htm

[Little Dave]

Did anyone go to the Seattle meeting?  The Richland one was very anti wolf.  Just curious how Seattle went.

Sure, I went.  The Seattle meeting was a wolf love fest. 
Myself and a few members of the Washington Cattlemen's Association spoke from a standpoint of science, economics and safety.  Most of the rest of the comments were emotional and expressing a want for wolves rather than a need for wolves.  Here's some notes that I took:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,37417.msg441084.html#msg441084

[wolfbait]

Washington could be the state that breaks the wolves back. Bangs said that wolves did not need to be reintroduced in every state. That being said, Washington with its lack of plenty of open space, more people, people who like to come to the country to, hike, hunt, fish, cross country ski,, that may be a problem with a wolf that has no fear of man kind. Wolves that have not been hunted for over 14 years,  protected by the endangered joke list.hmmmm, I don't think anyone on Wa. Hunting would enjoy seeing the head lines read: Wolves killed Three Cross Country Skiers Today in the Methow VAlley. But maybe then the real story would come out about the wolves. What would the pro-wolf people say then???

  *censored* we need to run that warm cuddly wolf pup thing agin,,, -------------

[wolfbait]

Historically and prehistorically moose were absent from most of western North America and eastern Canada, as well. Even in Alaska, moose were historically limited to a few, very remote areas. Since European settlement, however, moose numbers have exploded, as has the area occupied by those animals. There are more moose in North America today than at anytime in the last 12,000 years, except for the 1950’s-60’s when predator control was widespread and effective. Historically, caribou numbers were low and those animals so widely spaced that they could support only a few or no wolves. The addition of alternative prey, though, has allowed wolves to increase and the wolves then drive the more vulnerable caribou ever downward. That is to say, the addition of moose did not buffer, or reduce, predation pressure on caribou but instead increased predation on caribou, the exact opposite of what most people would predict.

That, however, is not the most intriguing part. Why were moose absent historically and prehistorically? According to Dr. Bergerud, moose, and to a lesser extent whitetails, have expanded in numbers and range due to climatic change and/or logging. In this, though, Bergerud erred. First, the expansion of moose occurred well before any global warming that may have occurred and second, based on fire-history studies there has always been a significant amount of the browse favored by moose and whitetails. Instead, as I have explained elsewhere, (see Kay, C.E. 1997. Aboriginal Overkill and the Biogeography of Moose in Western North America. Alces 33:141-164), native hunters extirpated moose over large areas, which allowed woodland and mountain caribou to persist. As native hunting declined, moose populations expanded, followed by wolves.

Two of the woodland caribou herds in most rapid decline lie not in Alberta’s heavily logged boreal forests, but rather in the remote wilderness of Canada’s Banff and Jasper National Parks. Why are caribou headed towards extinction in two national parks where there is no logging or other development? Wolves! Wolves that are maintained at too high a density by unnaturally large numbers of elk. Elk, that like moose, were historically kept at very low levels by native hunters. There are more elk on western ranges today than at anytime since the last glaciation.

All this has led Dr. Bergerud to conclude that there are only two ways to keep mountain and woodland caribou from going extinct. You either have to significantly reduce wolves or significantly reduce the number of moose or whitetails where the latter occur. Here we need to note that other studies have shown that wolves and bears routinely keep moose populations at only 10% or less of what the habitat would support in the absence of predation. Even at those low moose densities, though, there are still more than enough wolves to drive woodland and mountain caribou to extinction. So, if we were to significantly reduce the number of wolves, we would not only save the caribou, but we would also have more moose, which is a key issue among subsistence hunters in Alaska and the far north.

As I have explained in my previous articles on predation, all this is of critical importance to mule deer and mule deer hunters because the same thing, termed apparent or predator meditated competition, occurs with elk and mule deer. By preying mostly on the elk, wolves can/will take the more vulnerable mule deer to exceedingly low levels or extinction. The wolves that were turned loose in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming have preyed primarily on elk and there are data on how many elk each wolf kills per year––22 elk/wolf/year––but there is little data from those states or anywhere else on the effect of wolf predation on mule deer. To put it simply, mule deer decline so rapidly that there is nothing left to study!

Hunter harvest of black-tailed deer on Vancouver Island though, gives some idea of what will happen if pro-wolf advocates have their way. Before wolves arrived, sportsmen on Vancouver Island took home around 25,000 blacktails a year. Now that wolves have overrun the island, the figure has plummeted to less than 4,000 deer a year. Moreover, blacktails are now found in reasonable abundance only where they live in suburbs or cities; i.e., the deer have moved into towns to avoid predators.

And that is not the end of the bad news. Dr. Scott Creel, a professor at Montana State University, recently published a study in Science on predation risk and elk reproductive physiology. According to that research, elk in the Yellowstone ecosystem are being harassed by wolves to such a degree that pregnant cows are aborting or reabsorbing their unborn calves. Even studies of oil and gas development on winter ranges have never shown this level of harassment. If humans chased wildlife around the way wolves do, the humans would be in jail.

http://westinstenv.org/wildpeop/2008/09/05/wolf-predation-more-bad-news/

[wildebeast]

It will be a sad day if and when the wolves get into western WA, with all the brush they will never be able to keep under control.  I have seen what the cougars are doing to some areas where I have been studying the wildlife for years with my game cameras and it has been a rapid reduction in deer and the elk have been moving closer to humans for safety.

The only way we have a chance to slow down the wolves is for all the hunters to threaten to boycott buying hunting license, this will cut the money and make them consider the results of wolves in WA.  I know they are here already but must keep them out of western WA.

cliff

[Little Dave]

The only way we have a chance to slow down the wolves is for all the hunters to threaten to boycott buying hunting license, this will cut the money and make them consider the results of wolves in WA.

Well I don't agree that it is the only way.  In fact, this is what the PETA types would promote.

On the contrary, if substantially more people showed interest in deer and elk tags the department be motivated to preserve that revenue stream.  Simple supply/demand economics.  I figure most DFW biologists like their jobs, at least the state benefit packages, and will do what it takes to preserve their career.  This means maintaining supply for their revenue stream.

[alecvg]

Interesting read, thanks bearpaw!

[wildebeast]

Well, if you think buying more tags and filling the state coffers with more money will give you more power on the impact of wolves in our state, keep dreaming.  I will not give them a dime of my money for the support of wolves.

The hunters on here complain about wolves and yet they won't even start a petition to the state threatening to boycott the purchase of license and tags for a year to get attention on wolves on the west side.  If you don't, then you will get wolves and your money will help pay for them and their food.

I do hope you can find a way to solve the problem, but with the state in the red for money now would be the best time to squeeze them into believing they will loose more money next year.

Good luck

[mulehunter]

Well, if you think buying more tags and filling the state coffers with more money will give you more power on the impact of wolves in our state, keep dreaming.  I will not give them a dime of my money for the support of wolves.

The hunters on here complain about wolves and yet they won't even start a petition to the state threatening to boycott the purchase of license and tags for a year to get attention on wolves on the west side.  If you don't, then you will get wolves and your money will help pay for them and their food.

I do hope you can find a way to solve the problem, but with the state in the red for money now would be the best time to squeeze them into believing they will loose more money next year.

Good luck

  Thats what I told people about this.  Hunting Season Book just showed that INCREASE more PERMITS plus u still have to buy COMBO tags anyway. Probablly 50 Percent INCREASE PROFITS busniess for WDFW this year 2009-2010 Next year will be little HARDER for ANYONE as HUNTER to fill tag!
I Blame on WDFW for CHEAT on putting MORE Permits to get MORE money from all hunters. Plus Cougars closed to Most of us with out telling us and we dont expecting cougars closing after permit applied. Big LOSS for Deer Population will be HURT now before Next year.
Wolves are killing more everyday.
WILDEBEAST are right. We MUST CONTROL WDFW by OUR TAGS Money!  
Next year five in our family will NOT BUY TAGS. By the way that I am not LOUSY hunter. I am AWSOME HUNTER as everyone!  I Just dont want to SUPPORT WDFW Program No more until they OPEN TO WOLVES TAG!
 

Mulehunter  

[wolfbait]

At first I thought, hell no I won't be pushed out of huntin, but after this year in the Methow.  The only huntin I will be doing is predator. No more deer tags, no elk tags, only bear, cougar and, well you don't need a tag for the rest.