Elk Poacher Sentenced

[LongTatLaw]

Addicted,

Id say ur right that say I see you shoot an elk today and call it in. Unless you just know I am the only guy who saw you do it...its pretty darn close to impossible to find out who turned you in. However, if it was a circumstance where a first hand witness was absolutely necessary...say I see you shoot an elk...I walk up tell you its wrong and then report you...game warden goes through your house and truck and no sign of a crime and we cant find the site where the kill happened...then without my first hand testimony in open court there really "is no crime". However, If I report you...the game warden goes to your house and finds it chopped up in your house then I never need to be anything more than a "called in tip".

Then again... some of us are more confrontational...lol

3 hunts ago I was disturbed in my stand from 3 guys on 4 wheelers way way behind gates and NO ATV signs...

when I walked out they were in the process of putting them on a trailer right beside the gate. I walked up and took pics of them and the license tags with my cell phone. When they asked me what the hell I was doing... I explained the pics would make it much easier for law enforcement to locate them to give them their fines.

They werent happy and they even decided to suggest some alternative names I might wanna consider other than dave.

I reported them but not sure whats going on with it.

But, for someone a little more subtle...   its pretty darn confidential!

dave

[edmondshunter]

A point towards a special tag is better than nothing but its not enough of a incentive in my opinion. Sure it would be nice if everyone did the right thing when they witnessed something like this but lets be honest, it would take more than a extra bonus point to turn in an acquaintance. With people maxed out at 10 points does a extra point really help, not really.

Ive seen/heard of poachers in almost every gmu ive been in.  Poaching happens in many forms, hunting before/after legal shooting light, hunting from a vehicle, and so on.  It would take untold amounts of money to put a dent in the poaching that goes on in this state, thats a sad fact but its real.

As someone else stated, the cost of prosecuting this elk poacher must have been unreal.  It would be nice if poaching wasn't a problem, but as long as hungry mouths need filling, and a-holes with guns need need to get there jollies, this will be an all to real issue for all hunters

[popeshawnpaul]

I know the names of all witnesses.  It's my client's right to have me interview them prior to trial.

Money sometimes works, but many criminals just let it go to collections.  Jail sometimes works, but many just serve time and do the crime again.  I can get gun rights restored on felons after a few years of law abiding behavior.  So that isn't a perfect solution.  A combination of each and hope the guy changes his behavior.  Criminals hate work crew and community service.  They would rather just sit there in jail.  Giving them that would be the best deterant...

shawn

[bearhunter59]

The story highlights the fugality in the average, law-abiding hunter even bothering to get involved and try and cure the problem legally.  Let's face the facts....the only reason this guy got prosecuted was because it was a park ranger who found the kill site, and pursued the matter with the help of his law enforcement buddies.  If it had been a regular joe-blow, like me or you, and we call up the F&G and say we found a gutpile of a possible poached elk, and it's 3-4 miles up behind closed gates, the odds are F&G wouldn't even bother coming out, because in most cases, they aren't going to get out of their truck and walk the 3-4 miles back in there, on the possibility of it being a poached animal.

So let's say knowing F&G isn't going to walk back there and check it out, you being the good citizen you are, take pictures of the gutpile, surrounding area, and any footprints, and gather a piece of scrap meat for DNA analysis, and bring this all out to them, what do you think the odds are that anything comes of it?  My bet is nothing!!!

I'd like to know or see some statistics from F&G showing how many poachers were turned-in by hunters last year, and out of those, how many resulted in somebody being prosecuted...not even convicted, just brought to trial.  My bet is no matter how many were turned-in by hunters, not a one resulted in anyone being prosecuted.  At least that is my perception, and probably a lot of other hunters as well, so why even bother?

Leads me back to what I have been leaning towards lately...that is taking matters into our own hands.  Yes, it's illegal, but so what?  Who is going to turn you in???  The guys that you beat the snot out of???  First off, that's highly unlikely, and second off, so what?  History has shown that you probably won't even be prosecuted, and even if you are, you'd have to get a jury to agree what you did was wrong...again highly unlikely.   I say let's start playing the odds, like the poachers. 

Guaranteed, word gets out that hunters are starting to take matters into their own hands, and two things will start to happen.  1-Poachers and illegal roadhunters will start thinking twice about risking a run-in with a pissed off hunter, and 2- Law enforcement will start taking our complaints seriously, and start investigating more of these incidents.

DISCLAIMER:  The author in no way, advocates or endorses anyone taking the law into their own hands, or doing anything illegal.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I bet they're armed if they're out there poaching.  Beating the snot out of them could get you shot...it's not worth dying for. 
Or going to jail for.

[bearhunter59]

Yah, well I'll bet me and the other hunters are armed too....so I guess it's a mexican standoff...and maybe if those illegal roadhunters were confronted with a couple of armed hunters, they'd seriously question whether riding that quad or snowmobile back there is worth getting shot over too?  As it is, they pretty well know they can and will be able to get away with it and nobody can or will do anything about it.  I'd put money on it, that the first time one of those SOBs rides out there and suddenly gets guns pulled on them, that would be the last time they even think about riding in there again...Just like you and me, they really don't want any confrontations either.  If they start getting hassled by the law-abiding hunters for riding in there, then they will either stop riding illegally, or pick a different area...

[popeshawnpaul]

Um, well, I'm not quite sure if I'm up with your plan Bearhunter.  I can guarantee you they will take a felony assault case much more serious than the tresspass case.  I guess it's good for my business if you do, but me personally, I wouldn't beat the snot out of someone.  You will serve more time than they do.

shawn

[MikeWalking]

Here's a thought.  If fines, loss of hunting privileges, minor jail time aren't discouragement enough, how about Hard Labor?

There is at least a 4 year backlog of storm damage out there. Heck some of the roads I want to access have 8 or more slides on them. Let'em spend May-December cutting blowdowns and digging out roads while living in an unheated canvas tent.

[Geno]

Someone stated in a post above that if you turn someone in and they prosecute them that the offender can find out the name of the person who turned them in. I highly doubt this is true. As far as I know it is very confidential up to the point that your poaching bonus points do not show up online under your hunter preference points. I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from turning in a poacher thinking it wasn't kept confidential. If I am wrong on this correct me but in my experience there is no risk in doing whats right.  nwhunter

This year I witnessed a late season permit holder harvest more than one deer. I felt I did the right thing by turning him in to a game warden, I have since changed my opinion. After several meetings/phone conversations with the officer he told me that without my written statement, and committed involvement in the prosecution that he would not be able to get the search warrant necessary to gather evidence that he felt was a definite conviction or at least a plea bargain of guilt. He assured me that I "might" get bonus points. What he failed to tell me was in the case of a plea bargain the bonus points are a no go. Only if the state gets their conviction do you get your bonus points. (If anyone can contradict this, please feel free to chime in!) I had agreed to get involved and write my statement until he mentioned that once the arrest was made and the prosecuter had put together his case the poachers lawyer would have access to all of the facts including the names of the witnesses. I discussed the situation with my family and friends, all stated that they had no interest in accompanying me on any further trips to this location if I got legally involved.(The poacher lived in the neighboring town, it would be very easy for him to locate me on any holiday weekend) I have been hunting, fishing, and camping in this particular valley in north central washington for over 20 years and to give it all up for a couple of bonus points that I may not even get was not worth it. The safety of myself, my family, and my friends is priceless and I will never compromise that....ever. Someone that is willing to poach or committ any crime for that matter cannot be trusted to "forgive" the person that turned them in, more likely to become next years hunting accident that has no witnesses. Poachers steal from all sportsman that obey the law, the law needs to protect the identity of the witnesses so more people are willing to be involved in the prosecution of these dirtbags.   

Geno

[nwhunter]

Thanks Geno for the info. You probably did the right thing in both turning him in and deciding it wasn't worth the risk of endangering yourself or others and letting it go. Its too bad that the offender so often gets off because it takes so much time and money to prosecute it doesn't happen. What di dthe guy do shoot a small buck and highgrade when a bigger one stepped out? nwhunter

[Geno]

He shot three average bucks on different days. I watched him notch one of the tags while I talked to him, apparently when he returned and shot one of the deer he was using a "replacement tag" he had acquired as if he had lost the original. According to the gamey who pulled up the records. This is a common method with a lot of poachers, replacement tags. It's not a good idea to hunt the same area where other hunters have witnessed them harvesting an animal.

[woodswalker]

Someone stated in a post above that if you turn someone in and they prosecute them that the offender can find out the name of the person who turned them in. I highly doubt this is true. As far as I know it is very confidential up to the point that your poaching bonus points do not show up online under your hunter preference points. I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from turning in a poacher thinking it wasn't kept confidential. If I am wrong on this correct me but in my experience there is no risk in doing whats right.  nwhunter

Wrong...I've been ratted by WDFW...caused a LOT of problems.  Was genuinely considering moving a LONG ways away....or doing something about it.

[Wenatcheejay]

At least they prosecuted...

[hayes202]

Still the penalty still should be more!