Elk Poacher Sentenced

[popeshawnpaul]

One of the problems here was he plead guilty to federal charges.  I believe if he would have been charged for state crimes the penalty would have been greater.  I know that seems backwards, but that's the federal system in regards to these types of crimes.

shawn

[WAcoyotehunter]

Iowa just went to a Fine schedule based on the Antler score- trophy poachers were taking BIG deer and selling them for BIG money.  The state countered by making fines (actually damages) up to $20,000 for big deer.
I think part of the problem was that too many judges were hearing the "shot for food" story and letting them off easily.  It's basically unlimited doe tags there...so 'for meat' argument shouldn't hold water anyway.

[Geno]

I think the state already has something like this already. Just read your regs. If you turn in a poacher, you get points toward a special hunt.

Unfortunately if the poacher plea bargains with the prosecuter (and most do) then you get nothing. You might get awarded points if they are actually prosecuted, maybe not.The bad part for you is that they have a right to know who their accusers are and they get your name. Who knows what they will do to you in revenge for turning them in.

[huntnphool]

"The state countered by making fines (actually damages) up to $20,000 for big deer."

Not arguing with you Wacoy, but what makes a doe any less important? I would like to see the fine applied to all animals poached, big or small.

[LongTatLaw]

The thing that I worry about is the general indifference with some of the people on here.

Poaching is wrong! I buy licenses, follow reg's, and pass on amazing trophies that aren't legal. The thing is that there has to be a range of punishments that range from maybe an accident and clear misconduct. I mean, you can be hard liners all day long but there is a difference between the guy that thought that 3rd point was long enough but it came out 3 inches short and a guy that shoots three bull elk from I-5 in July at 3am.

Judges try to make the punishment fit the level of misconduct which is affected by planning and effort to cover up.

It sounds like the 2004 case must have sounded like they made a geographical error when shooting the Elk. I also know thats the unclear issue in the Berry case.

Im no expert at either but Ill tell ya that Ive seen game wardens throw the book at poachers and judges still add more to it.

Another thing you need to consider is that monetary fines dont do any good if a guy makes 12K a year. He aint gonna be able to pay 10K for poaching. It doesnt matter what you do. So the best thing you can do is stick him in Jail for failure to pay.

Just like me, if I wreck my car into you and you get a 1.7 million dollar judgement against me...that looks great on paper... but the 50$ a month payment plan is probably all you will really get. See my point.

So monetary fines that are extreme have no real effect.

Taking hunting rights away from someone that has broken the law makes as much sense as suspending a teenager from high school to punish him for skipping school!

So, unless your comfortable with the idea of a guy spending 6 months or a year in jail for shooting a deer then most of these complaints are VALID but impractical.

As for the Big dollars for big deer in Iowa... I dont care how big the deer is, once it gets to court the state is gonna have one hell of a time showing a reasonable method of legally valuing that deer. The legislative rule may say something but the practical application may look very very different.

I have a law degree and I have represented clients in over 60 cases in open court and I believe Id like my chances beating some big deer big fine rule in court.

Understand me!

I think we should punish the hell out of poachers... but I get bored with hardliner talk that doesn't consider reality into it. Too many of these discussions become intellectual banter with no reality checks to it...

which bores me!

That said.  I have problem with 6 months in Jail for the I-5 at 3am poachers!!!

[WAcoyotehunter]

TWO SOUTH CAROLINA MEN ARRESTED ON SEVERAL ILLEGAL HUNTING CHARGES

DES MOINES – Two South Carolina men were in the Polk County jail Saturday, November 10 facing several charges stemming from alleged illegal hunting activities in Iowa following an intensive investigation by DNR conservation officers.

Mike Sillanpaa, 38, of Summerville, S.C. and David Larry Gordon, 38, of North Charleston, S.C. were arrested following the execution of search warrants on a motel room in Des Moines, a Des Moines residence and a vehicle early Saturday morning. Seized during the search warrants were two freshly killed deer, two shotguns, one high-powered rifle and two cross bows.

In addition, mounted deer have been seized in South Carolina and are being sent back to Iowa as part of the investigation.

Charges against the two men include illegal taking of game, illegal use of weapons, possession of deer without deer tags, illegal hunting of deer in state parks (Big Creek and Springbrook), hunting from a motor vehicle and wanton waste for cutting the heads off of deer and leaving the rest of the carcass.

Sillanpaa and Gordon face more than $30,000 in fines and liquidated damages if convicted and the equipment seized is valued at approximately $5,000. Both were being held in jail Saturday morning and had not yet had an initial appearance in court.

The DNR is continuing to investigate this case.

 

From the Iowa DNR website.  You're right about the fines though- what difference does that make to someone with millions?  They should post thier faces and names on the website or make it public that they were convicted/fined...and of course take away hunting privlidges.

[MikeWalking]

This is of no real connection here but I smile to remember it.

In the early 80's a Washington man was busted for poaching. In his cabin he had the hides and such of almost 300 animals; deer, bear, elk, eagles.

Prior to sentencing he called the Judge a *Rhymes with punt* and demanded she put him in a Prison where he could still hunt and fish. The Judge, shocked speechless for a moment asked "What did you just call me"? He apologised and said his lawyer told him to. His lawyer was equally stunned.

He got 5-7 years.

The Seattle Times ran a special 2 part story on him. A little twerp he was.

[huntnphool]

"Another thing you need to consider is that monetary fines dont do any good if a guy makes 12K a year. He aint gonna be able to pay 10K for poaching."

Okay so a monetary penalty is no good.

"Taking hunting rights away from someone that has broken the law makes as much sense as suspending a teenager from high school to punish him for skipping school!"

Then you say taking their hunting rights away is useless. Which I agree with by the way.

"That said.  I have problem with 6 months in Jail for the I-5 at 3am poachers!!!"

Okay recap. Fines are useless!!!  Revoking hunting privileges are useless!!! and you have a hard time putting them in jail for 6 months. May I ask you what your solution would be. Kind of hard to come on here, give us your educational background, vehemently disagree with the present penalties and then not suggest some way to fix the problem. Just curious as to how you would suggest handling these guys.

[robodad]

Give em the fine and if they don't pay, put a lien on their drivers license like they do with dead beat parents. Jail is no good cause the judges just give them stupid sentences like 2 days and time served for the weekend they just spent in jail and probation for a year big deal. The penalty has to hit where it hurts the most and money and livelihood are where it is.

If it causes a hardship for his or her family then good it's working !!!

[LongTatLaw]

LOL

I see what ya mean huntnphool...lol

I meant to say...stick their asses in Jail...sorry, it was late when I was typing.

Monetary can be affective too but it has to make sense based on the degree of guilt and ability to pay which seems unfair that a illegal 3x3 elk costs me a 2K$ fine but Bill Gates a 2.2M$ fine. But its gotta sting. However, a 2.2M$ fine against me wouldnt sting...it would make me chuckle... cause I dont have it and probably never will.

So, stick their asses in jail. But most people arent gonna be ready to support that punishment in practice regardless of what they type on here.

sorry about the typo making things oh so unclear.

dave

[huntnphool]

You know Dave, I thought thats probably what you were thinking but after I read it several times I had to go with the way it was written I was seriously confused.

So your telling me the equity in your home and holdings, along with say your credit rating, comes into account when being sentenced before a judge? Thats crazy. So the person that actually was doing it to put food on the table, also probably has a negative net worth, which is why they need to do it in the first place, doesnt have to pay the same fine or the same jail sentence as say you? Your absolutely right, that isn't fair. Why should he get off just because he has been less successful?

[LongTatLaw]

Im tracking... lol   I try to be clear but the I must have hit the retard button on that one...lol

Well, Im not saying it is like that for poaching all over but if ya watch the game wardens confiscate trucks that have 1. decent value and 2. are paid off.

my very good friend is a game warden in Florida and FL is very bad for judges matching the punishment to the bank account.

So, a poacher with a 2007 f350 4x4 thats paid off better ride to the woods with his poor buddy who drives a 1984 datson with 600$ left on the payments...that way 2 deer out of season equal a 250$ fine each and 1 year loss of privileges.

As for here??  not sure. I know the game wardens wanted to hook up the guy that cut the head off of my archery elk with about 2,500$ fines (no hunting license and no tag on animal).

That was so steep I wouldnt tell em his name. lthough I never thought kicking his ass would have been to harsh... he lived in a 400 SF trailer with a wife and kids. He couldnt have afforded 100$ so a fine would have meant jail for him but he didnt poach...he was just a prick...lol

Im just saying, if ya want equality...all of us have time. And 6 months in county lock up for me should be about the same as 6 months for you... unless your a very very attractive man...lol

[huntnphool]

"Im just saying, if ya want equality...all of us have time. And 6 months in county lock up for me should be about the same as 6 months for you..."

I agree 110% How about making it 8 months, Oct1-Jan31 on consecutive years.

[ICEMAN]

Ok, how about this, criminalize any second poaching offense into a felony. The felony conviction will remove their rights to possess firearms in any state, effectively eliminating the problem. Not many felons will risk being caught with a gun in their hand, because simply handling a gun would be a new felony crime to risk being caught doing...

[nwhunter]

Someone stated in a post above that if you turn someone in and they prosecute them that the offender can find out the name of the person who turned them in. I highly doubt this is true. As far as I know it is very confidential up to the point that your poaching bonus points do not show up online under your hunter preference points. I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from turning in a poacher thinking it wasn't kept confidential. If I am wrong on this correct me but in my experience there is no risk in doing whats right.  nwhunter