why no scopes?

[bankwalker]

can you use scopes on muzzleloaders in washington? i have seen alot of pics with people and thier ML kills, but never any guns with scopes.

[carpsniperg2]

no not legal at all unless you visually impared and get a disabled card for it.

[rasbo]

Im glad we cant have scopes on muzzies.

[Whitelightning]

No scopes, but I have converted most of my M/L's to Peep site. My eye's are not what they used to be and the peep helps me alot.

[boneaddict]

Supposed to be primitive

[lewy]

I understand the whole traditional argument, exposed breech, etc. But a scope inst going to help your muzzy go off in the rain, so why not allow it- i think it would allow for more accurate shots, cleaner kills, and less loss game. For the people that don't like the idea, they can leave there peeps on.....

[bobcat]

If someone wants to hunt with a scope they just need to hunt the modern firearm season. Simple as that.

[GoldTip]

I know several guys who use the scopes due to vision disabilities.  They actually say they're not sure it is an asset, but they can't see without them.  I agree, it should remain primitive, but I do like that they have changed the ruling to allow it for guys who's eyesight is degradd to the point the would have to give up Muzzy hunting without them.

[Wacenturion]

I understand the whole traditional argument, exposed breech, etc. But a scope inst going to help your muzzy go off in the rain, so why not allow it- i think it would allow for more accurate shots, cleaner kills, and less loss game. For the people that don't like the idea, they can leave there peeps on.....

I can certainly understand your point of view.....and for those who disagree, you don't have to be visibly impaired to not see down a unscoped barrel without problems.  Just wait till some of you need glasses with bifocals...you cannot see the front and rear together in clarity.

[whacker1]

scopes would allow for cleaner shot at close range, but they would also allow folks to feel more comfortable with shots at longer range, which would in turn provide for poor shot placement. 

I target shot with scope on mine to determine which bullet was the most accurate, and then went back to a peep sight for hunting.  you definitely can shoot farther with the scope, but I can see myself taking shots outside the capacity of the muzzleloader.  Better to go with out the scope

[Whitelightning]

Scopes have been around for a Long time, not in the fashion we have today. I think saying scopes are not primitive is arguable. I am not saying they should be aloud however.
The inline was invented in 1812 by Pauley also. Seems kind of primitive too.

[carpsniperg2]

i use peep sights on both of mine and shoot both of them very well. there are people on here that can shoot great at 200 yards with them  but i am fine at 100-125

[ribka]

Primitive= good

Too many states that I have ml/archery hunted in started years ago with primitive weapons' rules
Over the years any states incrementally allowed  changes in regs: scopes, closed breech etc.. Soon no difference than single shot modern rifle.
I am in my mid 40's and eye sight is changing still would stick with same primitive rules.

Same with archery season. Used to be no crossbows. Now with the advancement of archery technology and strong lobby by cross bow makers has resulted in many states no allowing crossbows in regular archery season.

A few people want to argue that less loss of game with allowance of more modern technology in archery and ml. Why not just cancel those seasons and mandate modern firearms with 30 cal. or more rifles?

Over the years, based on my opinion, people's lack of basic hunting skills, ( scouting, hiking away from the access areas ( roads) , no tracking skills, stalking skills,) and  plain laziness has resulted in the allowance of more modern technology during supposed primitive seasons.
Keep it primitive in WA. ID has the same rules. If you don't agree switch to modern firearms
 

[bankwalker]

ive always wanted to hunt muzzleloader, but i cant shoot open sights. having very poor vision, i cant make out the sights. so a scope is needed. plus the frame of my glasses if very small so i see the sights in the upper corner of my eyes, outside the frame.

its cheaper for my to buy a muzzlerloader with a scope then it is to buy new glasses 

yes my eyes are that bad, the cheapest anywhere will make lenses for me is $250.  right now im walking around with super glue on my lenses cause i cant afford new ones 

[jstone]

Should keep it as primitive as can be. If we have them with scopes and shoot hundreds of yards why have a muzzy season

[boneaddict]

What Ribka said

[Whitelightning]

I don't believe putting a scope on a Muzzle Loader gives it SUPER POWERS.
A muzzle Loader Inline or Side Lock has Limitations far beyond what a scope will provide

Putting Fiber optics on would then give it Semi Super Power

[fishcrazy]

You can also use a scope when hunting in a Firearm restricted erea during modern season.


No scopes!!! Cleaner kills don't hold water. With that logic we might as well allow modern rifle in ML season so we can make cleaner faster kills. just my thoughts

On a related note I think they should allow hand guns during ML season. They are probably just as effective as a ML. Short range anyway.

Kris

[Ray]

I'm with ribka.

[jstone]

Putting on a scope might give someone the idea they could shoot farther just because they could see better at longer ranges with the scope.

[Whitelightning]

Putting on a scope might give someone the idea they could shoot farther just because they could see better at longer ranges with the scope.

If this is true, shooting a Jacketed bullet with or with out a sabot, rather than a Lead Conical or ball would instill the same misconception, wouldn't it

[h2ofowlr]

You may find that there are individuals that don't shoot iron sights very good at distance.  If they were to legalize 209 primers, scopes, etc. there would be as many muzzle loaders as rifle shooters probably.  I quit muzzle loading when they starting bring out the non traditional muzzle loaders.  It used to be a great season with not to many people.  I didn't like packing around my Lyman Great Plains rifle though.  No sling and it's a fairly heavy gun.  A great shooter though.

[crittergitter]

I moved to muzzle from modern for a couple of reasons 1.) get away from the throngs of people that take shots out of their skill level 2.) My longest shot during modern was only 75 yards, Ive done archery with great success, so why not try muzzie. If a person has dedication and hunting skills as noted by Ribka you shouldnt have to take those long shots that require optics....just my 2 cents..

[skynimrod]

If I'm not mistaken in WA you can only hunt that particular weapon season only also. That might be y they keep it traditional.

[Whitelightning]

I moved to muzzle from modern for a couple of reasons 1.) get away from the throngs of people that take shots out of their skill level 2.) My longest shot during modern was only 75 yards, Ive done archery with great success, so why not try muzzie. If a person has dedication and hunting skills as noted by Ribka you shouldnt have to take those long shots that require optics....just my 2 cents..

I agree as all but one of my shots have been under fifty yards.

I do not understand the thinking of the inline being labeled as this 21st century NEW theory. The inline has NO advantage over any SIDELOCK using a musket or #11 cap NONE.
If we are to keep this as a TRADITIONAL season than we should all use Smooth Bore Flint locks, as they are truly the Traditional rifle.

[Bofire]

 :)What is the difference between allowing scopes in Muzzie season and allowing compound bows in archery season?
They are not primitive, traditional or old. A cross bow is more primitive than a compound bow. I do not do either but I think your argument is illogical.
Carl

[M_59]

    As you can see from this quote from an article online, the inline concept is actually quite old.    "Truth is, there were actually a few enclosed in-line flintlock ignition systems dating from the 1700s, and Samuel Pauley received the first patent on a percussion in-line ignition system within just a few years of Joshua Shaw's patent for the percussion cap itself. "       I think the problem that everyone has with the inline is that it "looks" too much like a modern rifle so people think their effectiveness is more like a modern rifle as well. Kinda like throwing a set of tires and wheels on your car or an exhaust system. Lotsa people think you then have a "hotrod" when in fact it is still the same car it just "looks"  or sounds different.     Technologial advancements are made daily in the outdoor sports arena, decisions have to be made on what gets to be legal and what doesn't. And much of this technology has been focused on the inline muzzleloader.  Scopes, 209 primers,  and handguns do not belong in a primitive weapon season. Of course I didn't think we needed the jacketed bullets either.  I am sure an experienced shooter armed with a scoped Encore in .270 or .308 would have an effective range much further than a muzzleloader and it would fire every time.  Try telling my friend who hunted the Blues with his big bull permit for 5 days in the pouring down rain and snow that he had an advantage with his inline when he was staring down a 400 class bull and his gun wouldn't go off.   

[Ghost Hunter]

I am a greenhorn in the smokepole arena.  Couple years ago bought an .50 inline, and have now stepped up to a .54 GPR.  Who knows, in a couple of years, I may be using roundball for all my hunting.  I don't expect my harvest success rate to drop , and it may just be more enjoyable hunting.   I hope the rules don't loosen up any more on MZ.