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Author Topic: Take this serious!  (Read 47061 times)

Offline Special T

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2010, 12:41:41 PM »
Well done deer and elk steaks yum!  :puke:   Thats what they say to do to all game...  I don't even like my Beef steaks well done..
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Offline Axle

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2010, 12:45:58 PM »
Quote
And what is winning?  Getting rid of wolves all together?

As far as I'm concerned - yes!
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Offline Sporting_Man

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2010, 12:52:28 PM »
We were told (when we butchered that infected cow) that meat is safe to cook, however, liver, lungs and intestines were supposed to be handled with care and destroyed . My dad took care of it... However, none of us wanted  to eat any of meat. Total waste. Cow came from the mountain where wolves were. Lowlands and urban areas were less infested.

Offline Special T

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #168 on: January 26, 2010, 12:52:47 PM »
I think winning is geting the WDFW to actually mange game for the people who pay them.  :twocents: Doing studies to shut down the woods via the spotted owl, fish, etc by spending pitman roberts money or licence fees is BS I happen to think that in many ways the only way to change state run politics is to have an awakening by the masses. Normally this is when people have no $$$ or are massively impacted by someone's stupidity.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline Lowedog

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #169 on: January 26, 2010, 01:05:24 PM »


http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=disease.internal4

Can I eat the meat?   
Meat from infected animals is suitable for human consumption.
Do not eat any tissues or organs containing cysts.
Dogs and wolves can be infected from eating cysts in organs of moose or caribou and spread the disease to people in their droppings.
Do not feed infected parts to dogs.



https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/wdfw/faqs_general.html#Gene210





How much does the Department collect annually from sales of permits, licenses, etc.?
$31,302,327 was collected by the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife from the sale of permits, licenses, and fees July 1, 2001 through June 30, 2002 (fiscal year).


Where do license fees go? What percentage goes into the State General Fund or other funds NOT for use by WDFW?
79% goes to the State Wildlife Account 13% of that money goes to Other WDFW controlled accounts 5% goes to the General Fund


Out of the money that goes to the General Fund, how much is appropriated back to the Department?
As an example: In fiscal year 2002, the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife deposited $47,099,799 as revenues into the General Fund and spent $90,389,524 as expenditures from the General Fund.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #170 on: January 26, 2010, 01:19:06 PM »
And what is winning?  Getting rid of wolves all together?  

I am only trying to show that the parasite isn't exclusive to wolves and will be around regardless of if there are wolves or not.  You can say that the wolf is the greatest carrier and spreader of the parasite but where is the science to back it?  Has there been studies that other animals are inferior to the wolf as a carrier?  

I have posted links and info that show that this parasite is something that has always been around and will continue to be regardless of wolves.  If you choose to read it, it is up to you.  I only researched it because I wanted to form my own opinion on the topic at hand.  

I appreciate the info that wolfbait puts on here and find it interesting but when he then puts another spin on it by suggesting conspiracy and says he will kill any wolf he can then he loses his credibility in my book.  

Lowedog, I have agreed that wolves are not the only carrier. However there are leading wolf experts who have stated that the wolf is the best host (carrier) of the disease in the other info provided within this thread. They are the wolf experts not me, I am only repeating their statements.

Definition of Winning (The Wolf Wars)
I would expect there are nearly as many definitions as interested folks in this whole wolf debate. For myself, I will consider it a win if we can get anything from total removal to responsible management of wolves with say a target of 6 breeding pairs confined to only the more remote areas of WA, after which numbers are controlled by sport hunting seasons. Using government stats that translates into roughly 100-200 wolves which is enough in this state.

For the wolf lovers, most want 15 or more breeding pairs, so that would most likely be considered a win to them. That also translates into as many as 361 wolves in WA using government statistics, which in actuality could mean more than many actually out there but not confirmed. Multiply 361 by the number of game animals each wolf eats per year and maybe you will understand why many of us are concerned.

Studies have indicated that 1 wolf eats 17 elk or 44 deer per year (page 73, draft wolf plan). At that rate the possible target population of 361 wolves in Washington could eat as many as 6137 elk or 15,884 deer. If wolves do not populate all wolf zones at the same time, wolves will likely overpopulate in some areas of Washington first (which is possible under this plan). Eastern Washington could end up with 1000+ wolves just like Idaho has now. That many wolves could eat as many as 17,000 elk or 44,000 deer per year in Washington before any breeding pairs are established in the Olympic Peninsula so that delisting can occur.

Hunters only harvest an average of 8,000 elk and 38,000 deer in all areas of Washington (page 78, page 83, draft wolf plan). If wolves overpopulate, it is very possible that there would not be enough elk and deer to allow any hunting seasons. This would dramatically effect local economies and lifestyles.

So anything beyond about 6 confirmed breeding pairs would be my definition of totally losing.
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Offline Lowedog

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #171 on: January 26, 2010, 02:25:15 PM »
Very good Bearpaw.  I like that response.  :)
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #172 on: January 26, 2010, 02:37:41 PM »
 :brew:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline wolfbait

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #173 on: January 26, 2010, 02:49:36 PM »
And what is winning?  Getting rid of wolves all together?  

I am only trying to show that the parasite isn't exclusive to wolves and will be around regardless of if there are wolves or not.  You can say that the wolf is the greatest carrier and spreader of the parasite but where is the science to back it?  Has there been studies that other animals are inferior to the wolf as a carrier?  

I have posted links and info that show that this parasite is something that has always been around and will continue to be regardless of wolves.  If you choose to read it, it is up to you.  I only researched it because I wanted to form my own opinion on the topic at hand.  

I appreciate the info that wolfbait puts on here and find it interesting but when he then puts another spin on it by suggesting conspiracy and says he will kill any wolf he can then he loses his credibility in my book.  

Lowedog, I have agreed that wolves are not the only carrier. However there are leading wolf experts who have stated that the wolf is the best host (carrier) of the disease in the other info provided within this thread. They are the wolf experts not me, I am only repeating their statements.

Definition of Winning (The Wolf Wars)
I would expect there are nearly as many definitions as interested folks in this whole wolf debate. For myself, I will consider it a win if we can get anything from total removal to responsible management of wolves with say a target of 6 breeding pairs confined to only the more remote areas of WA, after which numbers are controlled by sport hunting seasons. Using government stats that translates into roughly 100-200 wolves which is enough in this state.

For the wolf lovers, most want 15 or more breeding pairs, so that would most likely be considered a win to them. That also translates into as many as 361 wolves in WA using government statistics, which in actuality could mean more than many actually out there but not confirmed. Multiply 361 by the number of game animals each wolf eats per year and maybe you will understand why many of us are concerned.

Studies have indicated that 1 wolf eats 17 elk or 44 deer per year (page 73, draft wolf plan). At that rate the possible target population of 361 wolves in Washington could eat as many as 6137 elk or 15,884 deer. If wolves do not populate all wolf zones at the same time, wolves will likely overpopulate in some areas of Washington first (which is possible under this plan). Eastern Washington could end up with 1000+ wolves just like Idaho has now. That many wolves could eat as many as 17,000 elk or 44,000 deer per year in Washington before any breeding pairs are established in the Olympic Peninsula so that delisting can occur.

Hunters only harvest an average of 8,000 elk and 38,000 deer in all areas of Washington (page 78, page 83, draft wolf plan). If wolves overpopulate, it is very possible that there would not be enough elk and deer to allow any hunting seasons. This would dramatically effect local economies and lifestyles.

So anything beyond about 6 confirmed breeding pairs would be my definition of totally losing.

In the beginning the experimental wolf population was for the YNP  Idaho was an after thought. The wolves were to be contained to the ynp. We have all seen how that has gone. I talk to will Graves a few weeks ago in a conference with another person who is also concerned about the diseases that these wolves are spreading. Will said that the wolves should be contained in wilderness areas where they have little contact with people, not down on valley floors in peoples back yards. I agree completely. If you haven't yet experienced wolves around your house consider yourselves lucky as it is not a good situation. You do not go outside at night with out packing, and even then you have a flashlight that could light up a football field. When the wolves are in real close your dogs will not get off the porch to pee no matter how bad they have to go, they mostly whine and pee on the porch, at these times you cannot blame them for the mess's that you clean up afterwards. If you own any livestock you are up all night long, even if you had no concern for your livestock the dogs bark all night long. The wolves that we have do not fear people, they have been seen in the town of Twisp. So you see one does not have to go out into the country in order to get infected, you can let your dog out in the orchard by Hankks' market to do his business, and he can load back into your rig, you now have first hand contact. Through that one dog many people can become infested. There should be a more accurate count of the wolves throughout Washington, and unbiased count. If this was to happen I know for sure, without a doubt that, if wolves were being managed as they should be a high kill rate for wolves would be issued. Meaning there would be an amount of wolves that needed to be Killed in order to maintain 6 bps. In 1992 WDFW had already identified six wolf packs, with up to 200 wolf sightings clear over on the Westside. We have far more wolves than WDFW are admitting, I talk to a couple of folks that were doing a wolf survey for the USFS, I won't go into it all but when I mentioned where wolves had been seen and how many, they told me it was just rumors, everything that I told them, came back in their opinion as rumors. In order for them to believe us we need a DNA sample. I was probably a week getting over that little chat, and by the way, I did manage to quit the Copenhagen, now I chew this crap called Grizzly and I am sure the environmentalists made it because it taste just like sh$t, should not be to much longer and I will be spending more money on bullets and no money on, well you know. Wolves are the main transmitters of diseases, when we had no wolves we had no problems and this new tape worm to most was not of any concern. Now it is, and it should be a concern to everyone even if you never go to the country, someone from the country can and will bring it to you and your family. In the near future I see many people taking shoes off at the door and washing hand before any thing is touched. For some people that won't be enough.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 03:08:08 PM by wolfbait »

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #174 on: January 27, 2010, 04:32:14 AM »
"The environmental movement, which many desperately hoped would succeed, did not keep any of it's promises…
It was hijacked by ideas and values that often destroyed the very things it sought to save…as another
manifestation of the Puritan ethic, also represents a reaction to the excessive materialism in modern life…
bloated by wealth, mainstream environmental groups have become bureaucracies not unlike the public
agencies they pledged to police. Occupying high-rent offices in the nation's capital far from "ecosystems"
they promised to defend, and heavily staffed with well paid lawyers, these organizations… spread scare
stories to stimulate public generosity and embrace litigation as a way of life." — In A Dark Wood, Alston Chase

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2010, 05:34:31 AM »
Quote
In the beginning the experimental wolf population was for the YNP  Idaho was an after thought. The wolves were to be contained to the ynp. We have all seen how that has gone. I talk to will Graves a few weeks ago in a conference with another person who is also concerned about the diseases that these wolves are spreading. Will said that the wolves should be contained in wilderness areas where they have little contact with people, not down on valley floors in peoples back yards.

Wolfbait you are exactly right, the wolflovers are taking every inch they can get, and the people have been allowing them to take miles. Now all the western states are approving wolf plans, and as you say, and as I remember it, that was not what was originally proposed to the public.

The American people are fooled so easily.....  :dunno:

Our founding fathers, the pioneers who struggled to survive while populating this great country, and our fallen heroes of so many wars to protect our freedom, must be rolling over in their graves as we let phony lieing beaurocrats take away our rights and freedoms so they can line their pockets, and as we let environmetalist terrorists dictate land use and wildlife management.  :'(

Americans will only get to keep the rights and privelages they are strong enough to fight for.  :twocents:
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #176 on: January 27, 2010, 08:19:15 AM »
Look at the dates, Washington should not be just starting wolf recovery. Washington has had wolves for many years.  For the last six years we have seen wolves every year, we have had wolves looking in our house windows, spent countless nights with our stock because of wolves all around them, had wolves kill deer within a hundred yards of the house. . http://washingtonwolf.info/ Is a wolf site that was started this spring about wolves in the Methow Valley and surrounding Washington state. In the Methow valley It has been said that their are three possibly four wolf packs. I talk to a guy tonight who said some of the wolves in the Methow are wearing yellow collars, yellow collars are GPS. WDFW is not being honest with the people of Washington. Not only do we have wolf packs throughout Washington but we also have the wolves that are not connected to packs which are not counted in the overall wolf count. Washington was in wolf recovery in the 1980's and early 1990's, The money for Washingtons wolf research went to Idaho in 1994, just becuase there was no money does not mean the wolves stop breeding and populating Washington state. Washington is not just now starting wolf recovery!


http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970714&slug=2549520



Monday, July 14, 1997 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

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Norm Dicks Puts Gray-Wolf Study On The Fast Track -- Reintroduction Wasn't Priority For Agencies
By Jim Simon

Seattle Times Staff Reporter

Not all endangered species are created equal. And few have Rep. Norm Dicks, Bremerton Democrat and former University of Washington football player, blocking for them.

Dicks has put on the fast track the campaign to bring the northern gray wolf back to Olympic National Park, with the House expected to include $300,000 for a feasibility study when it votes on the budget this week.

Funding for a wolf study, which Dicks' office says eventually could cost about $1 million over the next three years, is barely pocket change for most government programs.

But dollars for actual species-recovery work - outside of the high-profile cases like salmon and the spotted owl - can be as scarce as the creatures themselves: In this year's U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service budget, the Western Washington field office says it received no money for recovery.

When it comes to saving an endangered species, the story of the Olympic wolves is a lesson in how one influential and eager congressman in your corner is often worth a laboratory full of scientists.

Reintroduction of wolves to the Olympics wasn't a high priority among federal agencies or many Northwest wolf advocates until Dicks, urged by Defenders of Wildlife, an East Coast-based conservation group, got excited about the idea. "Wolves in the Olympics haven't been our priority," said Jim Michaels, endangered-species coordinator for U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's Western Washington field office. "But dollars certainly are very scarce and competitive for this stuff. If you've got a congressman who is interested, you better snag the chance."

Indeed, Dicks' patronage of wolves in the Olympics stands in contrast to the fate of recovery plans for their brethren in North Cascades National Park.

Biologists say gray wolves, migrating from Canada, have begun to repopulate the Cascades in small numbers during the past decade. But in 1994, the Fish and Wildlife Service cut the roughly $200,000 being spent annually on recovery efforts for wolves and grizzly bears in the North Cascades, diverting the money to programs in Idaho.

The agency has never written a recovery plan for wolves in the Cascades. There is little monitoring of wolf packs or counting of the wolves that have returned to the Cascades, Michaels says.

Some biologists say the recovery of wolf populations in the Cascades would pay bigger dividends toward ensuring the species' survival in North America than reintroducing wolves to the Olympics.

And federal officials didn't include the Olympics as part of a nationwide wolf-recovery plan.

Ed Bangs, head of wolf recovery for the Fish and Wildlife Service, said the agency's priority is restoring wolves to large land areas where they can link up with existing populations. The Olympics, as a wolf habitat, is virtually an island, and restoration of wolf populations there requires direct human intervention.

While advocates like Beth Church, conservation manager for Wolfhaven, a research and wolf advocacy south of Olympia, applaud Dicks' effort in the Olympics, they are still rankled by the budget cuts in the North Cascades.

Argues Mitch Friedman, director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance, "Wolves in the Olympics make perfect political sense because you've got a congressman who wants them in his district. But biologically speaking, why are we starting another batch of cookies while we let the ones we've already got in the oven burn?"

While funding for the Olympic wolf-restoration program has been rolling through the House, the Fish and Wildlife Service last week announced it had completed a grizzly-bear recovery plan for the North Cascades - a study first begun in 1991.

What the agency didn't mention is that it has no money to implement the grizzly plan. The only "recovery" efforts the agency can afford, said spokesman Jon Gilstrom, is to present a slide show he's assembled.

Hank Fischer, who heads the wolf program for Defenders of Wildlife, shares concerns about how spending priorities for endangered-species recovery are set. Like many critics, he worries that the federal government spends far more energy deciding what animals and plants to list as endangered rather than on actual recovery.

But he notes that wolves already are repopulating the North Cascades, with or without government help.

The Olympic Peninsula presents what he considers a low-cost opportunity to place wolves back in an area where they were systematically wiped out by settlers and the federal government more than 60 years ago.

"What we're looking at is a specific opportunity in a specific location," Fischer said. "In this business, there are biological opportunities and political opportunities. You have to find where the two things merge." Study money for wolf restoration still must survive a final budget agreement between the House and Senate.

Washington Republican Sen. Slade Gorton, who chairs the Interior Appropriation Committee, is publicly noncommittal on the project. His aides say Gorton has heard lots of complaints from residents and local officials on the Olympic Peninsula, who argue wolves could threaten livestock and scare away tourists.

Federal studies will look at questions on whether there is an adequate prey base of elk and deer on which the wolves can survive and whether there is enough suitable habitat to accommodate them.

If the studies pan out and local opposition is quieted, Dicks has envisioned airlifting wolves from British Columbia and Alaska within the next few years.

There is, of course, nothing unusual about a congressman hopscotching the priorities of federal scientists. Of the $39 million budgeted nationwide this year for plant and animal-recovery programs, about one-third of that was earmarked for specific projects by Congress.

Vicki Finn, an assistant manager in the Fish and Wildlife Services Western regional office, said the big money is reserved for the "glamorous" creatures - wolves, bears, California condors - that stir the public's imagination. "You won't see any member of Congress pulling in an appropriation for Delhi Sands Flower-Loving Fly," Finn said, referring to a Southern California insect that made the news recently when its endangered designation forced changes in the design of a new hospital.

Copyright (c) 1997 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.




Where have wolves been seen in the North Cascades?

Since 1984, wolves have been seen roaming in the vicinity of Ross Lake (Ross Lake National Recreation Area in Washington and Skagit Valley Recreation Area in British Columbia) on both sides of the International Boundary. Wolves were photographed near Hozomeen (shown at left) at the north end of Ross Lake in 1991. Locations of other sightings in the North Cascades include McAlester Pass, Pasayten Wilderness and Twisp River drainage of the Okanogan National Forest, Glacier Peak Wilderness, and Stevens Pass.

What kinds of wolves are they?

Gray wolves (Canis lupus), sometimes called timber wolves. This species once roamed much of North America from Alaska to Mexico -- from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

How many gray wolves are there in the North Cascades?

No one knows but probably very few. No one knows whether the population is increasing, decreasing or remaining the same.

Are there gray wolves in Washington State outside the North Cascades?

Yes. Wolves have been sighted throughout the Cascade Range and in the Selkirk Mountains in the state's northeast corner.

Are gray wolves reproducing in the North Cascades?

In 1990, adults with pups were seen in the Hozomeen area. This was the first known reproduction of wild wolves in Washington State in at least 50 years! Since 1990, biologists have seen three separate groups of adult wolves with pups in the Cascades. Wolves mate in February or March. About 63 days later a litter averaging six pups is born.

http://www.nps.gov:80/archive/noca/wolf.htm



Sunday, September 8, 1991 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

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As The Wolves Reappear, So Do Old Range Conflicts
By Sean Kelly

Washington Post

WASHINGTON - For the past decade, gray wolves have been gradually making their way south from Canada, extending their range down the spine of the Rocky Mountains, and are now living in several Western states from which they were exterminated half a century ago.

An estimated 40 to 50 wolves now live in Montana, with smaller numbers in Idaho and perhaps even some in Wyoming.

While wildlife biologists see the return of the wolves as good news, they are concerned that the animals may settle near ranches and kill livestock, renewing old conflicts that led to their deliberate extermination.

The Western adage, "No wolves, no way," still is quoted among many in the livestock industry, and biologists fear the wolves could be killed off in secret. Biologists suggest that a more reliable way to regain wolf populations would be to plant breeding pairs in remote areas where they cannot prey on livestock. At the same time, they say, the natural populations that take up residence near ranches should be monitored and destructive animals should be removed if necessary.

If an approved experimental population can be established, portions of the Endangered Species Act can be relaxed, permitting livestock owners to kill any wolf that threatens domestic stock.

"The question really boils down to: Now that we have wolves, what's the best way to get them off the endangered-species list and have viable populations that people can really enjoy?" said

biologist Ed Bangs, leader of the wolf-recovery program in Montana for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Biologists say Yellowstone National Park is ideal for wolf reintroduction. But, for the past decade, the livestock industry has opposed the idea.

In Congress, Sen. Steve Symms, R-Idaho, and Rep. Ron Marlenee, R-Mont., are among a group of anti-wolf campaigners in Congress who assert that wolves are a threat to humanity. On the other side is Rep. Wayne Owens, D-Utah, a proponent of artificial introduction. Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., opposes introduction but favors natural wolf recovery.

Yellowstone, where the last gray wolf was killed more than 50 years ago, consists of 2.2 million acres surrounded by national forests and on three sides by rigidly protected wilderness areas. Large wild populations of ungulates - hoofed mammals - are found in and around the park, including elk, mule deer, bison, pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep and moose, with smaller populations of white-tailed deer and mountain goats.

"There's certainly concern that ungulates have increased in numbers too large for the (park's) available lands," said Hank Fischer of the activist group Defenders of Wildlife "People think predation's cruel, but it doesn't compare to starvation."

Fischer said that if wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone efforts by officials to control wolf dispersal would focus on the park's periphery, where ranch owners are "rightfully concerned" about their livestock.

Gray wolves can travel great distances in short periods of time. For example, one wolf that was recently radio-collared in Montana's Glacier National Park was killed a few months later 500 miles north in Canada. If that wolf had traveled in the opposite direction, it would have been 100 miles south of Yellowstone.

The wolf movements are a result of growing wolf populations in the Western provinces of Canada.

Wolf packs maintain stable territories for years. So when pups leave home to start new packs, they must move out to the fringe of the old territory. As Canadian wolf numbers grew, they spread. The first wolf den in that part of the United States was confirmed in 1986 in Glacier National Park.

Recently, one wolf was found fatally injured - apparently accidentally - in central Idaho. Confirmed populations of gray wolves also exist in northern Washington and small packs are documented in Wisconsin. A large wolf population has long existed in northern Minnesota.

Removing the wolf from the endangered-species list is the primary objective of Montana's recovery plan.

Although wolves generally prefer to prey upon elk and deer, and although attacks on humans almost never happen, livestock owners contend that they prey indiscriminately. But Fish and Wildlife Service figures indicate that domestic livestock are rarely killed by wolves.

Nevertheless, the service said it is trying to appease ranchers. "I think, at least in Montana, we're doing everything we can to look at the ranchers' interests, which are legitimate," Bangs said.

Copyright (c) 1991 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/archive/?date=19910908&slug=1304367

("There's certainly concern that ungulates have increased in numbers too large for the (park's) available lands," said Hank Fischer of the activist group Defenders of Wildlife "People think predation's cruel, but it doesn't compare to starvation."

Fischer said that if wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone efforts by officials to control wolf dispersal would focus on the park's periphery, where ranch owners are "rightfully concerned" about their livestock.)

Now the wolves are not only  desimating elk and deer herds but also the elk herds are starving to death do too many wolves and elk having to change their eating habits.



(Recently, one wolf was found fatally injured - apparently accidentally - in central Idaho. Confirmed populations of gray wolves also exist in northern Washington and small packs are documented in Wisconsin. A large wolf population has long existed in northern Minnesota.)

(Although wolves generally prefer to prey upon elk and deer, and although attacks on humans almost never happen, livestock owners contend that they prey indiscriminately. But Fish and Wildlife Service figures indicate that domestic livestock are rarely killed by wolves.)

The wdfw wolf group does not care about the truth, Lie after bald-face lie has been told since the start of the wolf introduction.







 

Friday, April 17, 1992 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

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Gray Wolves' Return Subject Of Monday Meeting
Times Staff

Wolf-watchers, take note: The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will take public comments and answer questions about reintroduction of the gray wolf to Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho at a Seattle meeting Monday.

It's the first step in developing an environmental impact statement for reintroduction to those areas, said Doug Zimmer, Fish & Wildlife spokesman. The EIS will guide federal officials in determining whether the wolf should be reintroduced in those areas, and how it should be managed if it is.

Why should Seattleites care? Aside from being a controversial topic expected to draw comments from friends and foes of the wolf nationwide, the Yellowstone EIS could serve as a model for a plan to manage wolves that are rehabitating Washington state.

State wildlife agents already have identified six packs of wolves in Washington's Cascades, and more are expected to migrate from Canada to the state's protected forests.

Monday's meeting, from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. at Shorline Community College's Lecture Hall 1605, is an open house. Biologists will be on hand to show a videotape of wolves in the U.S. and answer questions from the public.

Formal public hearings will take place in May 1993. The Yellowstone wolf EIS will be released in 1994, along with a federal

decision.

Copyright (c) 1992 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/archive/?date=19920417&slug=1486887



Offline Lowedog

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #177 on: January 27, 2010, 09:07:54 AM »
I have read those articles before wolfbait.  I think maybe on this site when you posted them.  Not sure though. 

Pretty interesting but I don't see where the lies are...You even said yourself that WA was in wolf recovery in the 1980's and early '90's but then say WA should not be just starting wolf recovery?  Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.

It also raises a question in my mind.  It could be argued that WA was never completely void of wolves.  There has been talk of sightings dating back for decades.  There was strong evidence of wolves in WA in the 80's and 90's.  So I wonder why, if wolves numbers can double each year, why is there still a small number of them in our state?  As there numbers increased have they been going to Canada?  Or have they managed to slowly increase their numbers because the ecosystem has only allowed them to do just that? 


Here is an interesting blog I found from Sightline Daily which I believe is a  "green" news site.  It does have excerpts from actual news paper articles though. 

http://daily.sightline.org/daily_score/archive/2008/07/19/washingtons-wolves-are-back

Here is one piece from the Wenatchee World in July 2008 that was in the blog I found interesting...

A state biologist said Monday that he believes one or more packs of gray wolves are living in the Methow Valley...

Packers have made numerous reports of wolves in the high country in the past couple of years, and there have been increasing reports by residents in lower elevations, he said.

Fitkin said there have been reliable wolf sightings in the Methow dating to the early 1990s, but only sporadic, unconfirmed reports of wolf packs.

"What's changed recently is that we've had repeated observations of multiple animals in the greater Twisp River/Chelan Sawtooth and Libby Creek areas," he said, adding, "My suspicion is, based on the sighting history, its development is very similar to how recolonization in the Rockies occurred. This is looking like we very well may have some wolves on the landscape."
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #178 on: January 27, 2010, 09:22:31 AM »
wolfbait is right about the state knowing we have had wolves, here's your proof, check it out if you don't believe me.

I beleive it was in the early 90's about 91 or 92. I sat in a WDFW Commission public meeting and listened to I think, Dave Brittel, testify for the WDFW Dept that coyote hunting needed to be discontinued in the Paysayten in order to protect the small wolf poplulation there.

The Commission voted to make coyote hunting illegal in the paysayten to protect wolves. The closure is in the old regulations. If there is anyone else on this forum that went to all the commission meetings back then, I am sure they would remember that too.
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Offline Lowedog

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Re: Take this serious!
« Reply #179 on: January 27, 2010, 09:29:38 AM »
I know that the state knows we have had wolves.  I just don't know where they have said they didn't know.

In my last post in the piece from The Wenatchee World article that I posted Fitkin is quoted as saying there were reliable wolf sightings in the early 90's. 

"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
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