8 different special apps pools!

[bobcat]

Hey, my only "logic" is basically that I DON'T KNOW how odds will change. This is all speculation because we don't know how people overall will apply for permits. It could be that the majority will only apply for what they are most interested in and have been applying for over the last several years. So those who have been building up points while waiting for that almost once in a lifetime bull elk permit, may still only apply for a bull permit and won't enter the antlerless draw at all. Maybe they will decide not to spend that extra $5. I just don't know. And those with just one or two points because they apply and draw antlerless permits every other year or so, may not want to take the chance on a bull tag.

And it could also be like most of you think, we could have double the number of people putting in for every possible category they can, and odds will be way worse than they were before. Whatever happens, we will just have to live with however they set it up. They did the surveys and they're doing what the majority voted for. Kind of hard to argue with that.

[WDFW-SUX]

(sigh) bobcat......just trust us on this one OK?

[wrangler]

ughhh wow i came in late on this one... i didn't read all the pages but tired to skim through most of em. i can't figure out how this is possibly good for trophy hunters in this state? i put in every year for bull and buck permits in the coveted units and i don't expect to draw untill i have 8 or so points, well i have 8 this year for elk and deer and 9 for sheep and goat, 4 for moose. now it seems to me once i draw a bull or buck tag i better make it count cause i'll need 15 or 20 points before i have a chance again. you can bet i'll be shooting a cow next year to fill the freezer cause i'll apply with my 8 cow points and i'll prolly shoot a cow every 3 or 4 years but i would never trade a cow for a chance at a 350 bull or 190 buck every 6 or 8 years. damn the meat hunters must be pissed... no meat hunter i would guess has more than 2 or 3 points so good luck cause your screwed for the next few years, or however long it takes the antlerless pool to neutralize . also it looks like once we draw out it will be another 15 to 20 years or in a lot of cases never again that we'll be able to draw a trophy big game tag. am i just simple or what? i can't figure out how this does anything but provide an compensatory antlerless tag for the trophy hunters and totally screw the meat hunters all while bringing in more money for the state.  

[gasman]

This tread has made it's rounds a few times now 

We will have to wait and see what the final out come is on exactly what the change will be if any.


 

[wrangler]

So those who have been building up points while waiting for that almost once in a lifetime bull elk permit, may still only apply for a bull permit and won't enter the antlerless draw at all.

you are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WRONG thinking this is how its gonna be. read what i just posted. im no different than any other trophy hunter, actually im prolly more anal and see with more tunnel vision than most when it comes to drawing a trophy tag, thats my ultimate goal and im fine to wait cause i know i'll shoot a record book animal. however, your sorely mistaken if you think i wont be putting for cow tags now every year also.

[Geno]

I think it would be foolish to apply for a quality tag and a meat tag in the same year if you have lots of points built up.  Just think, a guy with 10 points could draw both permits the same year and only one gets filled...most likely the quality tag. BAM!!! back to zero points in both catagories.  So...please folks, if you have lots of points feel free to burn them up by applying in all catagories. Those with the most points are most likely get drawn and you can only fill one, then you are at the back of the line again.

[whacker1]

Geno - you can still buy ghost points in one of the categories to continue buildng points, but not risk getting drawn when you don't want to.

[wrangler]

I think it would be foolish to apply for a quality tag and a meat tag in the same year if you have lots of points built up.  Just think, a guy with 10 points could draw both permits the same year and only one gets filled...most likely the quality tag. BAM!!! back to zero points in both catagories.  So...please folks, if you have lots of points feel free to burn them up by applying in all catagories. Those with the most points are most likely get drawn and you can only fill one, then you are at the back of the line again.

not when everyone with 10 points are now putting in for cow tags. even so, if i draw both i'll have no problem trashing the cow tag for the bull tag. but thats just me...

[SkookumHntr]

-Yep wrangler ur seeing it pretty clear, that's exactly whats going on! I hope everybody voices there opinion on that public comment and we need to know exactly when and where the meeting is going to be held! That will be the most important meeting ever for quality hunts in washington! Super important for everybody to make there voice heard!!

[Geno]

Thanks whacker...I knew that. Anyone that puts in for ghost points will not affect the odds anyway because they can't draw a permit. A lot of folks have mentioned putting in for both meat and oil to improve their odds of getting drawn. If you don't have that many points then it is a good move for sure.  If you have lots of points then you are taking a risk of being drawn for both and only being able to fill one. Doesn't sound like a good strategy to me.

[bobcat]

Here's the deal people... the odds can't be worse for EVERYBODY. If it's worse odds for some, it HAS to be better odds for others, all depending on how many points you have and what you apply for. Unless a whole lot more people decide to start applying for special permits who had never played the application game before.

Same number of permits + Same number of hunters applying = same odds.

IMHO    

Now let's have a vote, is this thread going to set a record for the most pages?    

[whacker1]

same number of permits with the same number of people applying for 8 choices in two different pools vs 4 choices in one pool does change the odds because you are now taking the 60% of that population that applied for bull tags only and adding another 30% to it.  So you are in fact competing with more people for the specific type of hunting that you typically apply for.  Likewise you are taking the 40% that applied for cow tags and added 40% to that for those that only applied for bull tags and now applied for cow tags.

In the last 14 years people applied for their 4 hunt choices, now there are people applying for their 4 hunt choices plus your 4 hunt choices.  They effective cut the odds by somewhere around 30% - 50% depending on how many people actually take advantage of applying in both pools and how many actually choose the permits you go after. 

It is F'd in the A

[nwhunter]

This thread will keep going until Bobcat admits he is wrong in his optomism that this hairbrained idea by WDFW won't hurt everyones draw odds in some way. Now if the state made you pick which pool your points went to  and you could only accumulate points in that pool it wouldn't be so bad but with no risk to loose your points people will put in in all pools because hunt draws are are like the lotto for hunters , we love to put in and hope we draw something.

[WAcoueshunter]

I have to side with Bobcat...assuming the same number of total hunters and the same number of total tags, the average odds of drawing a tag (any tag) for all hunters collectively remains the same.  The difference is that the odds of drawing any one particular tag YOU want just got worse, whether you previously focused on primo tags or antlerless tags.

In my mind, this generally helps the guys described by Bone - they'd love a primo tag, but they can't stand to wait that long so they go fill the freezer with their doe tags (Exhibit A = my old man).   Now they will eventually draw that primo tag, but the price to pay is they will draw a doe tag a little less often.  I bet there's a large portion of the hunting pool that is perfectly okay with that outcome.

[huntnphool]

Just think, a guy with 10 points could draw both permits the same year and only one gets filled...most likely the quality tag. BAM!!! back to zero points in both catagories.

 What a bummer to have to choose Go ahead and burden me with having to make that decision, no brainer actually and I will be smiling all the way to my unit. You have to remember Geno, these are points that I was given for free to apply for that antlerless tag, I couldn't care less if I burn them because I drew a branched permit, bring it on!!!