Elk poaching in the Nile

[colockumelk]

I'll go out on a limb on this one.  Some will agree and some will disagree.

Putting the various tribes on reservations was wrong.  Giving them reparations is wrong.  These two things have hurt the people of the various tribes far more than it has helped them.  These two actions have created societies that are almost 100% dependent on the United States government for their wellbeing.  Take the Yakama Nation for example.  They see an unemployment rate that swings between 50-70%.  Tell me they're not dependent on our state.  How can we expect a society to do well or succeed in life when they are completely dependent on wellfare to make it?  No wonder they are stuck in the past.  If they don't bring it up people might forget and they could lose their livelihood ie their reparation money aka super wellfare. 

If the various tribes expect to make it in this world the only way that is going to happen is if reparations go away.  After all how long is our country expected to pay reparations?  How many generations separated from our past are we expected to support?  No matter the answer, until the people of the various tribes are expected to stand on their own reparations ie super wellfare has to go away.  Now obviously you can't just yank a person's livelihood and pay check away if they've been receiving it their whole life.  No you have to pick a date and anyone born after that date no longer receives their reparation money. 

Since the time we put the first Indian Tribe on a reservation and provided them with free beef we have forced them to be reliant on our government.  This has since evolved into the form of reparations.  Whatever you want to call it free beef, wellfare, reparations it all sums up to one thing, and that is forcing and keeping a group of people reliant on the United States government. 

The United States isn't the only country at blame.  Most tribal members I have spoken to always bring up the past.  Like I said earlier.  Those who dwell on the past will never be able to succeed in life.

[spikehunter]

lock the damn gate !!! they won't hike in to POACH.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

How are we getting the good deal?  We pay taxes, they don't.  They get free money we have to work for our money.  They get to hunt for free whenever, however wherever.  We have to pay alot of money to hunt and we have very restrictive seasons.  If we poach we go to jail.  If they poach they get a slap on the wrist, if that.  They get free housing, we have to pay for our mortgage that's IF we can get financing in today's market. 

Ummmm... wrong  I pay taxes....
Do Indians pay taxes?

All Indians are subject to federal income taxes. As sovereign entities, tribal governments have the power to levy taxes on reservation lands. Some tribes do and some don't. As a result, Indians and non-Indians may or may not pay sales taxes on goods and services purchased on the reservation depending on the tribe. However, whenever a member of an Indian tribe conducts business off the reservation, that person, like everyone else, pays both state and local taxes. State income taxes are not paid on reservation or trust lands

[WSU]

How are we getting the good deal?  We pay taxes, they don't.  They get free money we have to work for our money.  They get to hunt for free whenever, however wherever.  We have to pay alot of money to hunt and we have very restrictive seasons.  If we poach we go to jail.  If they poach they get a slap on the wrist, if that.  They get free housing, we have to pay for our mortgage that's IF we can get financing in today's market. 

Wrong.  The do not get to hunt for free.  As part of the treaties that we, the United States of America, executed with them, they reserved the right to hunt and fish.  In exchange, we got all the land that you and I live, work, and play on.  I would say the right to hunt and fish was pretty damn expensive.  What do you think the State of Washington is worth these days?

[gasman]

 


 

[whiteeyes]

I'll go out on a limb on this one.  Some will agree and some will disagree.

Putting the various tribes on reservations was wrong.  Giving them reparations is wrong.  These two things have hurt the people of the various tribes far more than it has helped them.  These two actions have created societies that are almost 100% dependent on the United States government for their wellbeing.  Take the Yakama Nation for example.  They see an unemployment rate that swings between 50-70%.  Tell me they're not dependent on our state.  How can we expect a society to do well or succeed in life when they are completely dependent on wellfare to make it?  No wonder they are stuck in the past.  If they don't bring it up people might forget and they could lose their livelihood ie their reparation money aka super wellfare. 

If the various tribes expect to make it in this world the only way that is going to happen is if reparations go away.  After all how long is our country expected to pay reparations?  How many generations separated from our past are we expected to support?  No matter the answer, until the people of the various tribes are expected to stand on their own reparations ie super wellfare has to go away.  Now obviously you can't just yank a person's livelihood and pay check away if they've been receiving it their whole life.  No you have to pick a date and anyone born after that date no longer receives their reparation money. 

Since the time we put the first Indian Tribe on a reservation and provided them with free beef we have forced them to be reliant on our government.  This has since evolved into the form of reparations.  Whatever you want to call it free beef, wellfare, reparations it all sums up to one thing, and that is forcing and keeping a group of people reliant on the United States government. 

The United States isn't the only country at blame.  Most tribal members I have spoken to always bring up the past.  Like I said earlier.  Those who dwell on the past will never be able to succeed in life.

Just another Hypocrite thread. Indians do this they dont do that and everything and everyone off the res is soooo perfect. Take a look in the mirror of our own (off the res government) hmmm, welfare, illegals getting free SS and medical. School systems failing,drug gangs,cops being killed every week  cash for clunkers blah blah blah!!!!!!!!!!!!

[boneaddict]

So, any news on who or what happened.  I've been watching the Herald and haven't seen a thing. 

[ICEMAN]

...Just another Hypocrite thread. Indians do this they dont do that and everything and everyone off the res is soooo perfect. Take a look in the mirror of our own (off the res government) hmmm, welfare, illegals getting free SS and medical. School systems failing,drug gangs,cops being killed every week  cash for clunkers blah blah blah!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just went and read your post history. Seems to be mostly just negative and provocative posts you make. Instead, why don't you add something of value regarding the issue?

Many here acknowledge some wrongs that were made years ago. Can you provide to us any information of late which will help with poaching in general? Do you have any insight as to why folks think the way some do about tribal poaching? You have an inside look at what is going on? Can you share with us?

[trophyhunt]

How are we getting the good deal?  We pay taxes, they don't.  They get free money we have to work for our money.  They get to hunt for free whenever, however wherever.  We have to pay alot of money to hunt and we have very restrictive seasons.  If we poach we go to jail.  If they poach they get a slap on the wrist, if that.  They get free housing, we have to pay for our mortgage that's IF we can get financing in today's market. 

Wrong.  The do not get to hunt for free.  As part of the treaties that we, the United States of America, executed with them, they reserved the right to hunt and fish.  In exchange, we got all the land that you and I live, work, and play on.  I would say the right to hunt and fish was pretty damn expensive.  What do you think the State of Washington is worth these days?

They lost we won, the strong survive. Was our ancestors supposed to turn around and go back when they encountered Indians? Funny they don't want to bring up Kennewick man... maby they weren't here first, either way it doesn't matter. They Lost the war.

[colockumelk]

I'll go out on a limb on this one.  Some will agree and some will disagree.

Putting the various tribes on reservations was wrong.  Giving them reparations is wrong.  These two things have hurt the people of the various tribes far more than it has helped them.  These two actions have created societies that are almost 100% dependent on the United States government for their wellbeing.  Take the Yakama Nation for example.  They see an unemployment rate that swings between 50-70%.  Tell me they're not dependent on our state.  How can we expect a society to do well or succeed in life when they are completely dependent on wellfare to make it?  No wonder they are stuck in the past.  If they don't bring it up people might forget and they could lose their livelihood ie their reparation money aka super wellfare. 

If the various tribes expect to make it in this world the only way that is going to happen is if reparations go away.  After all how long is our country expected to pay reparations?  How many generations separated from our past are we expected to support?  No matter the answer, until the people of the various tribes are expected to stand on their own reparations ie super wellfare has to go away.  Now obviously you can't just yank a person's livelihood and pay check away if they've been receiving it their whole life.  No you have to pick a date and anyone born after that date no longer receives their reparation money. 

Since the time we put the first Indian Tribe on a reservation and provided them with free beef we have forced them to be reliant on our government.  This has since evolved into the form of reparations.  Whatever you want to call it free beef, wellfare, reparations it all sums up to one thing, and that is forcing and keeping a group of people reliant on the United States government. 

The United States isn't the only country at blame.  Most tribal members I have spoken to always bring up the past.  Like I said earlier.  Those who dwell on the past will never be able to succeed in life.

Just another Hypocrite thread. Indians do this they dont do that and everything and everyone off the res is soooo perfect. Take a look in the mirror of our own (off the res government) hmmm, welfare, illegals getting free SS and medical. School systems failing,drug gangs,cops being killed every week  cash for clunkers blah blah blah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whiteeyes and WSU thank you so much for making my point for me.  If you want to talk about the past fine I'll talk about the history of this great country.  My ancestors were whole heartedly slaughtered and forced to change their religion and customs.  But you don't see me pissing and moaning about what the Romans did to the Germanic tribes do you?  If anything the Romans were fare more brutal than America was to the Indians. Because unlike the Indians who died off from disease, the Germanic tribes were largely killed off by fire and a steel blade.

 In any case America didn't do anything to the Indians that they weren't doing to each other.  But people like you and the Indians like to forget that part.  You like to pretend that it was all puppies and rainbows before the evil whiteman came.  If either of you knew your history you would know that far more Indians were killed by disease than by bullets.  In fact if you look up your history between the time the Spanish sent an expedition in 1539 to 1542 led by Hernando De Soto and the first English Colonies in the early 1600's 90% of the Native Indians died because of disease. 

If you look at his reports and those of De Vaca they speak of huge Indian cities and huge bands of warriors.  But because the Indians didn't have any immunity to Eurasian diseases then massive epidemics ravaged the country.  In fact a Spanish expedition to the Puget Sound area found areas with massive amounts of bones.  These bones were from the people who died of disease.  Because you see when the majority of your friends are dieing you there are not enough people to bury them.  But people like you like to forget that most people died through disease.  Instead you cite a few instances of tragic events.  Events which neither side was innocent.

The other thing that "drained" Indians of their numbers was assimilation into a modern society.  You see anytime a society is more modern and has an easier life people are naturally drawn to that society.  So when Indians saw this technologically advanced society that was light years ahead of their own technology (ie the wheel, metalergy, written language etc) they began to become a part of that society.  And rightfully so. 

I've heard time and time again how "the evil white man" stole my peoples way of life.  How is that.  We won a war.  The Indians were forced to somewhat adapt or be completely left behind.  I doubt anyone would trade todays technology and ease of life for how Indians were forced to scrape out a living before "the evil white man came."  You can't have both.  It's either come into the 21st century with us and live under our rules and laws or fine live under your laws and customs but go back to pre-Columbian era technology.  Meaning no metal of any sort, no wheels no horses etc. 

No one is talking about taking anyones traditions or religion.  All were saying is it's the 21st CENTURY!!! Act like it.  Enough with the discrimination.  Because if you don't think that what is happening is discriminatory then you are very naive and/or have a very narrow biased opinion. 

FYI here is the definition of discrimination.  Tell me if this doesn't sum up what's happening.

DISCRIMINATION: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination. 

[trophyhunt]

Very well said, thank you very much.

[ICEMAN]

Colokumelk, how dare you go to that length and post such a reply. What are you trying to do, make sense of things? Well written and matches my feelings on the subject, thank you.

[chrisb]

Colokumelk, how dare you go to that length and post such a reply. What are you trying to do, make sense of things? Well written and matches my feelings on the subject, thank you.

I agree, we can't go around having logic and factual information here. After all this is the internet!

[boneaddict]

"he had me at hello".

Loved the last part the best.  Nicely worded.  Send that to gregwhore would ya?

[bonkellekter]

clockum, very nicely written - I can never get my point across so eloquently

thanks for the post