Broadheads for turkey

[FamilyMan]

Does anyone know if mechanical broadheads are legal for turkey? In the big game regs it says they are illegal for big game. I know the spring turkey regs haven't came out yet. But I read the spring turkey regs online at the wdfw website and it doesn't say anything about restrictions on broadheads of anykind. So does that make it legal cause it doesnt say anything against it? If anyone has info I dont I would appreciate it. I would hate to break one of the many absolutely bull***t rules this state has.

[Whitenuckles]

 Magnus Stinger works for me!

[Turkeyman]

They are legal for turkey.

[carpsniperg2]

100% legal i would go with rage i am picking some up myself i like the bullheads by magnus but won't shoot them past 30yards and going to throw a few broadheads in for kicks this spring

[batsquatch]

I just bought the NAP gobbler getters today. Good reviews.

[turkey slayer]

Batsquatch now you just have to hit something

[Tom Tamer]

Expandables are not okay ... however fixed like the Gobbler Getter are.

TD correction.....expandable ARE legal, I wrote the WDFW last year on this. The fixed blade rule applies to Big Game hunting, not small game. The WDFW recognizes turkey as small game.

 I'm going with the Rage three blade, last year I tried the two blade and watched as a quartering away shot on a turkey caused one blade to deploy, making the arrow glance off

On some other forums around the nation I've been reading a lot of bad pub on the gobbler getter, with the edges designed to keep the arrow from passing through a lot of guys are saying the BH's are just bouncing off? Just what I've been reading though.....I took it with a grain of salt myself, who Knows what the exact senario was?

[turkeydancer]

TN - Thanks ... they must have changed the regs since I asked several years back .... thanks again, TD 

[MtnMuley]

Not to stir up an argument Tom Tamer, but are you sure WDFW classifies turkeys as small game?  Last I knew, if you caught a person poaching a turkey, you were eligible for preference points, which are only available with a big game violation...............

[Wayne1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to stir up an argument Tom Tamer, but are you sure WDFW classifies turkeys as small game?

I would say..  since all you need is a small game licence to hunt Turkey...   they must fall under that catagory

[MtnMuley]

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  since all you need is a small game licence to hunt Turkey... 

You now need more than just a small game license, Wayne1.  As of a year or two ago, you're required to buy your turkey tags rather than them just give you one with a small game license.

[Tom Tamer]

That's w

Not to stir up an argument Tom Tamer, but are you sure WDFW classifies turkeys as small game?  Last I knew, if you caught a person poaching a turkey, you were eligible for preference points, which are only available with a big game violation...............

That came straight from the horse's mouth. I emailed to the WDFW directly and that was their response.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Just to get in on stirring the pot... , would there not be some "deployment" problems with an expandable BH on small game such as a turkey?
I would think that the resistence needed for the blades to open would cause more of a chance of wounding than cutting any vitals, as they are "soft" tissue compared to muscle.
I guess if you just want to carve a piece of breast off.......

 
But then I dont know anything about them (expandables), and hunt with the same set up I use for everything.
 (except I am using a string-tracker)

[Tom Tamer]

Just to get in on stirring the pot... , would there not be some "deployment" problems with an expandable BH on small game such as a turkey?
I would think that the resistence needed for the blades to open would cause more of a chance of wounding than cutting any vitals, as they are "soft" tissue compared to muscle.
I guess if you just want to carve a piece of breast off.......

 
But then I dont know anything about them (expandables), and hunt with the same set up I use for everything.
 (except I am using a string-tracker)

The Rage are front deploy system, where just after a cut on contact point is the " Back of the blade, they are really easty to deploy, so it wouldn't nessasarily cut or wound the animal in this instance, but it will re-direct flight.

 I gotta use the fancy stuff I'm not good enough to run around with flint tips on my bow yet LOL;)

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I gotta use the fancy stuff I'm not good enough to run around with flint tips on my bow yet LOL;)

Actually I am using a Pearson "Deadhead" on a cedar arrow, late '60 Damon Howatt recurve

[Wayne1]

You now need more than just a small game license, Wayne1.  As of a year or two ago, you're required to buy your turkey tags rather than them just give you one with a small game license.

Jeez.....   Of corse you need a Turkey Tag....   If you can't use common sence to figure out what I was saying, then Thank God I never invited you to hunt my property...   What I was trying to point out...   since all you needed was a small game licence, and not a Big game licence.... [plus a turkey tag].....   the then game Dept. must classify the bird as small game.

[Turkeyman]

 

[lokidog]

Wayne, I knew what you were saying, can I come hunt turkeys?   

[Wayne1]

      I'm really not a hard ass...   it just struck me wrong...  It's all good

[MtnMuley]

Don't know anything about you Wayne1, and I surely wasn't making you out to be an idiot.  Just pointing out that for those unaware that you needed to also buy the tag these days, not have them given to you with the purchase of a small game license.  The way you worded it, I wasn't sure if you were aware.  Anyhow, sorry you were offended. 

[Wayne1]

It's all Good MtnMuley....  Guess I should have remembered that they used to give away a free tag....  we fought hard to get rid of that...  since all it did was bring out idiots...crap...  we use to see guys riding in back of pick ups and shooting birds as they were crossing the road...  Thank God...  most of those days are over....   Good Luck this season 

[wabow]

IMO WA needs to revise their code and get into the 21 century. I understand the rules but they need to be better written. Alot of things have changed since the origonal RCW's were written. I spoke with a F&G officer yesterday about this topic while he was at my business. He says he will write a violation to anyone he finds using an expandable even on turkeys. This way he covers his butt and leaves it up to the judge. He also stated he would not write a violation for luminoks because he sees them as part of the arrow and not attatched to the arrow. I dont use or have experience with either just my opinion of the revised code.

Don

[MtnMuley]

Very true wabow.  Each officer will differ, and the hunter will pay the price, even if they do the research.  Same is true with the spotlighting scene.  I've heard the same comment from different officers: "I'll write him up, and let the judge decide."  Not good for us in the law abiding hunting community.

With the F&G officer you mentioned, it's crazy how he could wouldn't write a ticket for a luminok, but would on the broadhead.  They're both removable from the arrow.  Strange.

[wabow]

Very true wabow.  Each officer will differ, and the hunter will pay the price, even if they do the research.  Same is true with the spotlighting scene.  I've heard the same comment from different officers: "I'll write him up, and let the judge decide."  Not good for us in the law abiding hunting community.

With the F&G officer you mentioned, it's crazy how he could wouldn't write a ticket for a luminok, but would on the broadhead.  They're both removable from the arrow.  Strange.

Everything makes it into an appeals court eventually but until then officer discression is what we get to deal with. Would be so much easier if they would just expend a little more ink either in the regs or officers hand book.

Don

[bow4elk]

So what's the REAL verdict?  I've always understood that expandables are legal for turkeys.  When I taught bowhunter education, it was under the WDFW hunter education program.  I was told that the regulations are written such that if it is NOT explicitly written as illegal, it is presumed legal.  In other words, if the regs don't say "expandable broadheads for the harvest of turkeys are illegal" (or something to that effect), then they are presumed legal.

I'm going to ask again and get a name because I'm planning on using NAP Shockwave heads this year.  My friend is a recently retired enforcement officer in SW WA and a very successful turkey hunter.  I'm going to ask him as well.

[Gobble Gobble]

I love the Gobbler Guillotine http://arrowds.com/index.htm

[KimberRich]

I love the Gobbler Guillotine http://arrowds.com/index.htm

Awesome Video on that site. 

[bow4elk]

Sent this email to WDFW Enforcement, will post their reply if I get one.  I waded through the WAC codes 232-12 and 232-28 referenced in the Turkey Regulations.  What a joke - do they really expect people to do that?!  I did NOT find anything to deem expandable broadheads illegal, BTW.


To Whom It May Concern:

There is much debate about the legality of using expandable broadheads for turkeys.  Please clarify whether or not they are legal for bowhunting turkeys.

It is rumored that some enforcement officers will issue a citation and let the courts decide.  While this is hearsay, it is UNACCEPTABLE to publish hunting regulations without providing would-be law-abiding hunters the appropriate information necessary to ensure they are in compliance with game laws.

I highly recommend an update to the WDFW web site and a memo be generated and circulated to all enforcement officers to ensure they are acting in accordance with the official policy.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Tom

[Wayne1]

Great letter...  Be interested in thier reply...  Thanks for making the effort.   

[Tom Tamer]

IMO WA needs to revise their code and get into the 21 century. I understand the rules but they need to be better written. Alot of things have changed since the origonal RCW's were written. I spoke with a F&G officer yesterday about this topic while he was at my business. He says he will write a violation to anyone he finds using an expandable even on turkeys. This way he covers his butt and leaves it up to the judge. He also stated he would not write a violation for luminoks because he sees them as part of the arrow and not attatched to the arrow. I dont use or have experience with either just my opinion of the revised code.

Don

See I find that way of thinking  CRAP! We're innocent til proven guilty. SO it would be best if  either the WDFW streamlined ther regulations( When pigs fly) Or have their enforcment people understand the entire think and not leave it to interpretation. I'll stick witht the response I got from them last year.....Turkeys are not considered big game and those regulations pertain to big game.

[bow4elk]

So what's the REAL verdict?  I've always understood that expandables are legal for turkeys.  When I taught bowhunter education, it was under the WDFW hunter education program.  I was told that the regulations are written such that if it is NOT explicitly written as illegal, it is presumed legal.  In other words, if the regs don't say "expandable broadheads for the harvest of turkeys are illegal" (or something to that effect), then they are presumed legal.

I'm going to ask again and get a name because I'm planning on using NAP Shockwave heads this year.  My friend is a recently retired enforcement officer in SW WA and a very successful turkey hunter.  I'm going to ask him as well.

I got a response:

Thank you for contacting WDFW regarding the use of expandable broadheads for turkey hunting.  Your e-mail has been forwarded to me for a response. 

Expandable broadheads are currently lawful for turkey hunting during the spring season.  I emphasize the “spring season” because there are no concurrent big game seasons during spring.   Almost (but not) all of our archery equipment restrictions are prefaced with “It is unlawful to hunt big game animals….”  Since turkey is not a big game animal, the restriction on mechanical broadheads does not apply. 

During the fall season it is often impossible to determine whether an individual is lawfully hunting turkeys or attempting to circumvent the law and hunt big game with unlawful equipment.  I always advise individuals who hunt big game with archery equipment during falls months to carry only broadheads which comply with our equipment restrictions.  Mechanical broadheads do not.

Our Fish and Wildlife Officers are well-trained, professional law enforcement officials.  If hunters have questions about rules or regulations they need only contact their local officer for authoritative clarification.

Mik Mikitik

Department of Fish and Wildlife

Enforcement Program

Hunter Education Division

[Tom Tamer]

So what's the REAL verdict?  I've always understood that expandables are legal for turkeys.  When I taught bowhunter education, it was under the WDFW hunter education program.  I was told that the regulations are written such that if it is NOT explicitly written as illegal, it is presumed legal.  In other words, if the regs don't say "expandable broadheads for the harvest of turkeys are illegal" (or something to that effect), then they are presumed legal.

I'm going to ask again and get a name because I'm planning on using NAP Shockwave heads this year.  My friend is a recently retired enforcement officer in SW WA and a very successful turkey hunter.  I'm going to ask him as well.

I got a response:

Thank you for contacting WDFW regarding the use of expandable broadheads for turkey hunting.  Your e-mail has been forwarded to me for a response. 

Expandable broadheads are currently lawful for turkey hunting during the spring season.  I emphasize the “spring season” because there are no concurrent big game seasons during spring.   Almost (but not) all of our archery equipment restrictions are prefaced with “It is unlawful to hunt big game animals….”  Since turkey is not a big game animal, the restriction on mechanical broadheads does not apply. 

During the fall season it is often impossible to determine whether an individual is lawfully hunting turkeys or attempting to circumvent the law and hunt big game with unlawful equipment.  I always advise individuals who hunt big game with archery equipment during falls months to carry only broadheads which comply with our equipment restrictions.  Mechanical broadheads do not.

Our Fish and Wildlife Officers are well-trained, professional law enforcement officials.  If hunters have questions about rules or regulations they need only contact their local officer for authoritative clarification.

Mik Mikitik

Department of Fish and Wildlife

Enforcement Program

Hunter Education Division

Need to forward that on to that above mentioed game warden that would write a ticket for it;)

[KimberRich]

Good info.  It's good to see it in writing and makes sense.  Thanks

[bow4elk]

My response to Mik:

Hi Mik,

Thank you for the clarification.  As an IBEF/NBEF bowhunter education instructor (not currently teaching) I used to get a lot of questions, such as this one, that didn’t have a clear statement in the regulations, such as your response below.  I am an active measurer for the Pope and Young Club as well, and in the process of measuring people’s animals I get a ton of questions about legal archery equipment, etc.  However, I fully understand it’s the responsibility of the hunter to educate themselves before hunting.

To that end, I’d like to suggest that such equipment regulations clearly articulated.  Having hunted in many states, I know that it can be difficult for law-abiding hunters to follow the law, especially when certain regulations are in place solely to curb illegal activities.  For example, Illinois has a law that a bow must be “locked or inoperable” while transporting in the field during non-legal shooting hours.  For a compound bow this means a padlock through a cam or around the string/cables.  Not many non-residents have a lock on their person but the citation is a stiff fine should you forget or simply not know.  Again, the intent is to curb illegal activities before or after legal shooting hours but, like many laws, these sorts of mandates only confuse good-intentioned folks and leave them at risk of game violations.  Poachers don’t give a rip about laws, they are cheaters plain and simple. 

My point is that Washington is home to a lot of military families, many of which love to hunt.  This ‘legal broadheads for turkey’ topic is very confusing to most who’ve read the regulations and tried to wade through the WAC codes referenced therein.

Thanks again for clearing this up.
- Tom