"Putting a Square Peg in a Round Hole" The fall of the Colockum Elk Herd.

[colockumelk]

This is the paper I wrote about the Colockum elk herd.  If you have an interest in this herd or think all my posts are BS I encourage you to read this attached paper.  It is a comparison between the Colockum elk herd which is failing and the PMU 33 sub-herd which is doing very well.  Here is the abstract from my paper.  It also has graphs and tables which help illustrate the situation in the Colockum.  Please take the time to read it.  

[colockumelk]

I'll be expecting a book report from each of you by Wednesday. 

[Bob33]

I read the report.  Interesting.  I did note there were more total elk in 2008 than there were in 2004 and also more than in 2000.  Is that a "nose dive"?  It appears the drop is more selective in the types of elk, rather than an overall decline.

[colockumelk]

The "nosedive" was in reference to the number of bulls in the Colockum.  The number of overall cows has not changed much. 

[WSU]

If the number of cows overall has not changed, is the herd really being "exterminate?"

[colockumelk]

If the number of cows overall has not changed, is the herd really being "exterminate?"

 If you don't have any bulls, the cows don't get bred.  Once you hit a certain point (which we are at if not close to it) where more elk die from natural causes than are bred each year.  This is why even though there isn't an antlerless season in the Colockum the cow population has dropped 26%. 

[bowhunterforever]

Great read!

[AKBowman]

If the number of cows overall has not changed, is the herd really being "exterminate?"

 If you don't have any bulls, the cows don't get bred.  Once you hit a certain point (which we are at if not close to it) where more elk die from natural causes than are bred each year.  This is why even though there isn't an antlerless season in the Colockum the cow population has dropped 26%. 

God read but I think one bull can bread a TON of cows...I wouldnt mind being a bull in that unit! 

[duckmen1]

sound to me like an even bigger problem than the hunters is the tribal massacre.
don't get me wrong i think we should shorten up season a little bit, but these tribes have it made
i don't know the exact situation on them over there, but in western washington they are shooting them and letting them lye.
they will cut the antlers of and every once in a while the backstrap but the whole elk ends up going to waste.

[WSU]

If the number of cows overall has not changed, is the herd really being "exterminate?"

 If you don't have any bulls, the cows don't get bred.  Once you hit a certain point (which we are at if not close to it) where more elk die from natural causes than are bred each year.  This is why even though there isn't an antlerless season in the Colockum the cow population has dropped 26%. 

I guess I misunderstood when you said that the overall number of cows hadn't changed.  It is obvious that they aren't getting bred if the cow numbers have dropped 26%.

I'm also curious about the tribal portion of your paper.  You say the Yakamas kill an estimated 40 bulls per year (if I remember correctly), but that if we went to a draw system we could regulate them in the name of conservation.  It would seem to me that, given the "in common" language and how that has been interpreted, we would have to be killing less than 40 bulls per year under the permit system to even have a leg to stand on regarding "conservation."  Did you do any research that elaborates on the point you made in the paper?

[colockumelk]

Yeah I have done alot of research have you?  The main problem in the Colockum isn't the tribal harvest.  The tribal harvest was just the final nail in the coffin.  Does it piss me off that 8-12 guys go up there and kill 40 bulls a year.  Basically 4-5 bulls each?  Hell yes it does.  I think each person should be limited to 1 bull per year.  The main problem in the Colockum is low spike survival.  That is on us as hunters.  I'm the type of person that likes to fix myself before I fix others.  And right now while I don't think what some Yakama's do in the Colockum is ethical or right, WE do kill about 8-10 times more bulls per year than they do.  That is the main problem, WE as hunters kill too many spikes each year.  Meaning not enough spikes live through the general modern season to offset the number of branch bulls harvested each year by hunters, Yakamas and poachers. 

Permit only falls under the definitions of conservation.  The purpose of "controlling" the tribes isn't to restrict their harvest, considering we harvest 10x more than they do.  The purpose would be to make them go to a "permit" system in which case we'd finally be able to document the amount of animals taken.  Basically they would be finally held accountable, just like you and I are to the amount of harvests.

[WSU]

I wasn't attempting to get confrontational or call you out, although you seem to see fit to call me out.  My question was intended to be simple.  Did you do any research regarding what would be required in order to regulate tribes under the name of "conservation."  If we could simply characterize our efforts as "conservation" and therefore regulate the tribes, it seems to me that we would already be doing that.  My question is fairly specific, and I was wondering what research you did on that issue.  It's obvious you spent some time researching these issues, and I was wondering what research you did on that specific issue.

I agree that it would be good to have accurate numbers of tribal harvest.  That seems like the only way to effectively manage the herd, and game in general.  My question was attempting to address if this is actually a feasible idea. 

And to answer your question: yes, I have done some research on these issues, especially regarding regulation of the tribes by the state. 

[Viszla]

Interesting read.  A thought came to mind.  If the problem is too many spikes being shot off every year, maybe we should go back to the "good ole days" when it was any bull.  We could shorten the season to one weekend and have any bull.  This would lesson the impact on spike bulls yet give people a chance to harvest a nice bull.  I know I would pass up a spike in hopes of finding a bigger bull.  Just some random thoughts.

[colockumelk]

WSU sorry my bad.  Sometimes on a forum I missinterpret things.  I appologize.  The whole tribal thing isn't cut and dry like you say.  However the tribal thing isn't the bigger issue.  Like I said the bigger issue is WE as hunters kill far too many bulls per year.  We need to fix the bigger problems first.  Which is US.

Viszla with all due respect your solution would only make the situation worse.  There are currently 85 (as of 2009) branch bulls in the Colockum.  If it went to any bull you'd have 2-3 times more rifle hunters in there than there already is.  Since its so open with so many roads these 85 branch bulls wouldn't have any where to escape to.  Maybe 5 would live through the season.  So what would happen is the same amount if not more spikes would be killed and also all of the branch bulls would get slaughtered as well.

Within two seasons like this the bull to cow ratio would be 0:100.

[WSU]

No problem.  I am genuinely interested in the "conservation" angle, as it could apply to many other issues in the state (mainly over-fishing by tribes).  For example, on the coast there are streams closed to retention of native steelhead to non-Indians, but open to gillnetting by the tribes.  It sure seems like the conservation argument would apply there, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.