Total LOSS!

[MtnMuley]

1 bad and 1 horrific last two years for the grouse hatch in Okanogan County.  Even though I am a die hard grouse hunter, I would like to see them shut down the season here this year.  With all the fires over the past few years and last two wet springs, the birds are big trouble.  

[Viszla]

1 bad and 1 horrific last two years for the grouse hatch in Okanogan County.   Even though I am a die hard grouse hunter, I would like to see them shut down the season here this year.  With all the fires over the past few years and last two wet springs, the birds are big trouble. 

Wow, I am surprised to see someone feel the same way I do.  I have written and complained to WDFW for years that they need to at least shorten the season to September only.  But what do they do?  They up the limit!! There is no reason the grouse season should be open during deer and elk seasons.  Every yahoo road hunter who comes across a grouse shoots it.

[MtnMuley]

The bag limit increase to 4 birds last year was f#&*in' ridiculous in Okanogan County.  I don't hunt the westside of the state, nor the far eastern side for grouse, so maybe they can afford to increase the bag limit there, but around the NCW, it's unacceptable and the *censored*bag that allowed this to happen should lose his job. 

[Curly]

I never really understood why they increased the bag limit either.  There were a lot of grouse last year......most I've ever seen, but this year doesn't look too good so far.  Seems like this year the limit should go back down to 3 or even shorten the season.

[bobcat]

I never really understood why they increased the bag limit either.  There were a lot of grouse last year......most I've ever seen, but this year doesn't look too good so far.  Seems like this year the limit should go back down to 3 or even shorten the season.

If there aren't many grouse, people aren't going to kill 4 per day anyway. Also, if there are very few grouse, most people aren't going to spend much time hunting them. So in a bad year, relatively few grouse will be killed. Reducing the limit and/or the season length, won't make much, if any, difference in the grouse population next year.

[Viszla]

I never really understood why they increased the bag limit either.  There were a lot of grouse last year......most I've ever seen, but this year doesn't look too good so far.  Seems like this year the limit should go back down to 3 or even shorten the season.

If there aren't many grouse, people aren't going to kill 4 per day anyway. Also, if there are very few grouse, most people aren't going to spend much time hunting them. So in a bad year, relatively few grouse will be killed. Reducing the limit and/or the season length, won't make much, if any, difference in the grouse population next year.

I don't really understand your bassackward logic.  So if we open up the season year round it won't matter, huh?

[Skyvalhunter]

Thats a ton of grouse out there you just have to get off the road. Thus we need to increase the limit to 5!!

[bobcat]

I never really understood why they increased the bag limit either.  There were a lot of grouse last year......most I've ever seen, but this year doesn't look too good so far.  Seems like this year the limit should go back down to 3 or even shorten the season.

If there aren't many grouse, people aren't going to kill 4 per day anyway. Also, if there are very few grouse, most people aren't going to spend much time hunting them. So in a bad year, relatively few grouse will be killed. Reducing the limit and/or the season length, won't make much, if any, difference in the grouse population next year.

I don't really understand your bassackward logic.  So if we open up the season year round it won't matter, huh?

How do you not understand that if people go out in the woods and don't see any grouse, that they aren't going to continue to go grouse hunting? If they're not grouse hunting, they aren't going to kill any grouse. People will stay home and save their gas if they go out there once and don't see one bird. However if you go out the first time and see 50 grouse in a half a day, you're going to tell all your friends and family, and then you and a bunch more people will be out there hunting them. And if you're seeing 50 in a half a day, there's a good chance you might kill a limit of 4. But if you stay home, and your friends and family never even go out once, because you didn't tell them about all the grouse you saw, then zero will be killed. Does it make sense now?

[Viszla]

No

[bobcat]

No

I guess it's safe to assume that you've never taken any courses or read any books about wildlife management then? I won't bother wasting any more of my time trying to explain it to you.   

[bobcat]

From the 2009 Game Status and Trends Report:

The current Sep. 1 to Dec. 31 hunting season structure has been in place since 1987. A daily bag limit of 3 of any of the three species was in place from 1952 to 2009 when the bag limit was raised to four. This increase in the bag limit was not made in response to increasing populations, but rather in response to increasing opportunity. Since hunters average approximately 0.4 grouse per day hunted, which has been the case for over 50 years, increasing the bag limit should not impact overall populations.

If you want to read more go to this link (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/status/09trend.pdf) and start reading on page 268.

[Viszla]

Okay, lets up the deer bag limit to 2.  It won't have any impact on them according to your theory.  The deer will become completely wiped out and therefore no one will hunt them so they will be just fine.

I'm sorry, but you are the one who needs to do a little reading and rethink your logic.  Off topic, but are you with the game dept. because you sure have way too much faith in them.

[bobcat]

Big game are different than birds. They don't re-populate as quickly. Do some reading. Lots of information available on the internet.

[bobcat]

By the way, in this case you don't need to have "faith" in the WDFW. It's common sense, as I tried to explain above. If the limit on grouse was 20 per day, how many grouse do you think would be killed per day in a bad year, on average? Would it be any higher than if the limit were 1 per person per day?

[Viszla]

I will agree to disagree on this.