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Author Topic: diaphram frustration  (Read 7383 times)

Offline DoubleJ

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diaphram frustration
« on: August 24, 2010, 08:41:56 PM »
I can't get this.  I don't even know if it's in my mouth right  :bash:  does the round part go against my teeth or does the flat end go there?  Help please?  and no laughing  >:(

Offline buglebrush

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 08:45:05 PM »
I feel your pain.  :P The straight edge goes against your teeth.  try looking it up on youtube.  Some great tutorials.

Offline nontypical176

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 09:14:06 PM »
Gagged on a diaphram the first year I used one, until I puked.  The best part is when you finally get one working for you and then it starts tasting like a fresh pile of dog crap each time you put it in your mouth.  Sometimes I wonder...... does my breath smell as bad as this thing tastes, and why are my eyes watering?

Offline JCClement

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 10:58:57 PM »
Had the same thing happen the first time I used a mouth diaphram for Turkey.   Just wait until the taste and smell make their appearance.

Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 11:09:10 PM »
best thing to do is buy a sonic done call they are the best for beginners. the flat edge goes forward and there will be a gap between the roof of your mought and the read. that is what the dome calls do for you automatic. you do not have to worry about spacing with them.
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Offline inmysights

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 11:34:22 PM »
Some reeds are better than others. The sonic domes are uncomfortable for me, I prefer the primos and carlton brands. Takes lots of practice and the gaging goes away after a few years.  ;)

Offline Crunchy

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 12:05:42 AM »
Its more than likely too large of size.  Look for a small that fits the roof of your mouth better and your good to go.

Offline Elkhound

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 06:00:17 AM »
I have been using various Primos diaphragms for the pst 5 years...both elk and turkey. I listened to one of Joel Turner's elk calling seminars and ound out that it seems like my diaphragms don't fit my mouth properly as well.  The roof of my mouth is very high not to mention I have a wide mouth as well.  I cannot find a call that will seal against the roof....air keeps escaping.  Mind you, I can make decent sounds, but I cannot keep my mouth open when calling like Joel recommends....I always have had to pierce my lips and flex my tongue to keep the call in place.  The mini diaphragms don't seem to help either.  Any suggestions out there would be awesome!

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 06:14:45 AM »
I bought 3 different diaphrams last night.  2 I can't get any sound out of and the third sounds like a jackrabbit in distress.  I'm going back to external calls

Offline Elkhound

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 06:29:54 AM »
Sounds like that jack rabbit would work for some coyote thinning!

Offline brianmtsinc

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 06:50:20 AM »
Don't give up on these.  In my opinion they are a MUST HAVE during archery elk season.  I have taken 2 elk out of the last 4 years that both would have been gone if I did not have a mouth call in.  Both of them were in to about 5 yards, saw me and went to bolt.  I blew a quick call as I came to full draw  - one was shot at 17 yards and the other at 10.  An external call would have never worked in either situation. 

I NEVER go into the woods without a call in my mouth now!

Keep trying and you will get it!   

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 06:52:32 AM »
I've watched the videos online.  I need someone in person to show me

Offline Elknut1

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 06:53:46 AM »

 I agree, do not give up so easily it's worth the time & effort to master the mouth diaphragm! Here's some instruction for use!--------

 
 Learning to use a mouth reed takes persistent practice, do not give up too easily, even if it seems a bit difficult at first! Make sure you're using the right tool for the job here. You want to start with a light tensioned single reed latex mouth reed or a very light tensioned 1 1/2 layered latex reed as a beginner, no double reeds here or very tight stretched latex reeds, they're not user friendly & are for more experienced calling. You want to start with cow sounds first, soft ones at that, then you will graduate to louder & longer tones as you master the small ones. Bugles will come or stem from your cow sounds. A bugle is no more than a lengthened out cow mew where you would add more air & a bit more tension on the latex reed itself with your tongue. These bugles are reserved for AFTER you master cow sounds. You want to achieve one goal before you move on to the next one!

Do Not Over Blow! This is very common for new ones to do so, do your best to control your air output as if you were just breathing the air out past the diaphragm. Make sure you have a 100% seal where the tag of the call is up against the roof of your mouth, you must dam the air up. If tag is stiff, then chew/nibble on the tag & saliva it up a bit, to soften it with your front teeth, as you hold the main frame in your right hand. This will make the tag pliable & will now mold easily to your palate. The open end part of the latex reed of the call itself should be where back of top teeth on the inside meet gum line, you do no want it too far back, It is not held with your teeth in a biting motion at all, it merely will fit snugly into place against back of top teeth & loose tag part of reed sealed in roof of mouth, the call will be in a 30-35 deg angle. Adjust front or back from there for best position per individual, make sure you have it sealed or you'll get a hissing sound, that shows air is getting over the top of mouth reed tag & escaping just under your pallet! Now take the tip portion of your tongue & drop it down to where it touches in the area of the inside of your bottom teeth & gum line, now use the middle portion of your tongue to contact mouth reed in the middle portion of the latex not the end of the latex. Some find that using the front portion back of tongue & shaping it like a bicep then using that small part of the arch in contact with the latex works best for them for some bugling such as the location bugle. To start getting a sound out of your call, say shhhh as you apply light pressure on latex with flat part or center of tongue. For more elk like sounds, now put a bit more tension on the latex & slowly increase airflow in a controlled manner. For cow sounds only light tongue pressure is needed with controlled air flow such as breathing type air. Don't push the air or force it out, avoid quick bursts of air for these starter sounds! Play with tongue tension for best sound quality, & make sure your tongue is salivated for slickness & you'll notice less tickling! Do your best to keep solid contact with tongue on reed when making sounds, this can change a bit for more nasally cow sounds, then you would slide tongue just off latex or near end of it to flutter latex & create the needed vibration of latex to get the nasal effect that a cow will use at times! For all bugles & screams you do not want your tongue slipping off front of reed, you will lose major volume there if you do! See how this info works for you! But, perfect your cow sounds first before moving on, or being concerned with bugling!

  ElkNut1

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 07:06:37 AM »
I'm using the Primos Ivory plate single.  I cut down the tape and it makes a bit of a better noise.  Louder anyway

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: diaphram frustration
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 07:13:37 AM »

 I agree, do not give up so easily it's worth the time & effort to master the mouth diaphragm! Here's some instruction for use!--------

 
 Learning to use a mouth reed takes persistent practice, do not give up too easily, even if it seems a bit difficult at first! Make sure you're using the right tool for the job here. You want to start with a light tensioned single reed latex mouth reed or a very light tensioned 1 1/2 layered latex reed as a beginner, no double reeds here or very tight stretched latex reeds, they're not user friendly & are for more experienced calling. You want to start with cow sounds first, soft ones at that, then you will graduate to louder & longer tones as you master the small ones. Bugles will come or stem from your cow sounds. A bugle is no more than a lengthened out cow mew where you would add more air & a bit more tension on the latex reed itself with your tongue. These bugles are reserved for AFTER you master cow sounds. You want to achieve one goal before you move on to the next one!

Do Not Over Blow! This is very common for new ones to do so, do your best to control your air output as if you were just breathing the air out past the diaphragm. Make sure you have a 100% seal where the tag of the call is up against the roof of your mouth, you must dam the air up. If tag is stiff, then chew/nibble on the tag & saliva it up a bit, to soften it with your front teeth, as you hold the main frame in your right hand. This will make the tag pliable & will now mold easily to your palate. The open end part of the latex reed of the call itself should be where back of top teeth on the inside meet gum line, you do no want it too far back, It is not held with your teeth in a biting motion at all, it merely will fit snugly into place against back of top teeth & loose tag part of reed sealed in roof of mouth, the call will be in a 30-35 deg angle. Adjust front or back from there for best position per individual, make sure you have it sealed or you'll get a hissing sound, that shows air is getting over the top of mouth reed tag & escaping just under your pallet! Now take the tip portion of your tongue & drop it down to where it touches in the area of the inside of your bottom teeth & gum line, now use the middle portion of your tongue to contact mouth reed in the middle portion of the latex not the end of the latex. Some find that using the front portion back of tongue & shaping it like a bicep then using that small part of the arch in contact with the latex works best for them for some bugling such as the location bugle. To start getting a sound out of your call, say shhhh as you apply light pressure on latex with flat part or center of tongue. For more elk like sounds, now put a bit more tension on the latex & slowly increase airflow in a controlled manner. For cow sounds only light tongue pressure is needed with controlled air flow such as breathing type air. Don't push the air or force it out, avoid quick bursts of air for these starter sounds! Play with tongue tension for best sound quality, & make sure your tongue is salivated for slickness & you'll notice less tickling! Do your best to keep solid contact with tongue on reed when making sounds, this can change a bit for more nasally cow sounds, then you would slide tongue just off latex or near end of it to flutter latex & create the needed vibration of latex to get the nasal effect that a cow will use at times! For all bugles & screams you do not want your tongue slipping off front of reed, you will lose major volume there if you do! See how this info works for you! But, perfect your cow sounds first before moving on, or being concerned with bugling!

  ElkNut1

Best advice I've seen so far.  Makes it sound better.  I'm comparing it to my imaka da bull crazy external cow call.  The sound is getting close to matching but it is MUCH quieter with the diaphram.

 


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