Scoped Muzzleloaders

[ML_Hunter]

This is a topic that I feel strongly about, as for 209 primers, and muzzle loaders with a sealed breach...they would be nice, but I can go either way about it.  Scopes on the other hand...Even a 1.5 power scope would be a huge enhancement and cut down on the number of gut shot animals and make hunting just that much safer.  I'm a huge advocate for the allowance of scopes on muzzle loaders and I hope you will all take the time to read my message and hopefully join me in trying to make a change.  You can all use my message below as a template, make changes to fit your views, or write your own letter.  Below are a few e-mail address that you can send this to, and send this to anyone else you feel necessary including friends who hunt and would like to see a change.

director@dfw.wa.gov, commission@dfw.wa.gov, huntered@dfw.wa.gov

Thank you,
James
------------------
Director Phil Anderson and WDFW officials,
 
I am an active hunter and fisherman and have been enjoying Washington's outdoor opportunities since 1994 when I moved to this state.  Since my children and lovely wife have also started enjoying the wildlife and spend countless hours in the field.  My largest passion for the outdoors includes hunting and my preferred method of hunting is with a muzzle loader for all big game including deer, elk, bear and if I'm lucky enough cougar. 
 
With the last big set of regulation changes, Washington started to finally move into the modern era with muzzle loader hunting and allowed the uses of any bullet material, however left out the upgrade of in-line muzzle loaders with sealed actions, the uses of 209 primers and the use of scopes. 
 
Honestly, my biggest argument for sealed action muzzleloaders is that with Washington's currently law makes it extremely difficult to find decent rifles to use.  I do fairly well keeping my charge dry and have only really have one miss-fire in the field that was caused to my primer/powder getting wet.  However if Washington is trying to give every opportunity for hunters to successfully harvest animals, then a sealed action is the way to go.
 
As for 209 primers, they give off much more heat and reliability in setting off the charge in the barrel.  But I can live with sticking to the percussion or musket cap system, 209 primers, in my personal opinion will not make a huge difference.
 
Where I am most annoyed with Washington's Department of Fish and Wildlife is with the use of scopes!  The reason for scopes is transparent: to see what you are shooting at. Scopes afford better shot placement, quicker kills, better game recovery, and greater safety. It has always been that way. For those with less than perfect vision, the majority of hunters across the country—optics are an even more vital component of ethical, sage hunting practices. A scope is the last and best chance to confirm your target, what is behind it, and what resides to the left, right, and in front of it. Collateral damage and friendly fire have no place in the hunting woods.
 

There can be no glory in a gut shot or lost animal, estimated to be over a million and a half deer every year. Naturally, no scope improves trajectory nor makes a gun more accurate. It simply allows better, more precise use of the tools that we have. A scope in no way encourages people to shoot beyond their comfort zone; the converse is true. Those with the propensity to throw "Hail Mary’s" have always done so, regardless of equipment. Thoughtful use of a scope stops the wasting of a button buck with a doe tag, thoughtful use of a scope stops a shot when there is no backstop—or when another animal is directly behind your quarry.
 

This is not to suggest than hunting be restricted to “scope-only,” or that anyone be forced to hunt with a scope—anymore than mandatory use of rangefinders or even binoculars would be reasonable. We don’t need more gun laws, we need less. We don’t need more bureaucracy, we need less.
 

Whether handgun, rifled shotgun, or muzzleloader—those who can more accurately place a bullet with a scope should be allowed to do so. To not encourage effective, efficient, humane, safe hunting is a tortured path that defies logic and the delicate sensibilities of those possessing common sense. To not take a game animal as efficiently as possible shows no respect for that animal.
 
Allowing scope use is just as sensible as a regular visit to the eye doctor, and enhancing your vision when possible when operating equipment. It makes as much, if not more sense when that equipment is a firearm.
 
Thank you for reading this letter and taking the time to consider the proposal of perhaps updating regulations for the general muzzle loader seasons
 
Thank you,
 

[AWS]

My $.02 ! 

Learn to hunt, the use of wind and terrain, study the habits of your quarry, spend time all yearat the range and learn the limitations of your equipment, if you can't keep your hits in the kill zone of your game a beyond 50yards don't shoot till you get within 45yards.  The original intent of muzzle loader season was to experience hunting as our fore fathers did with the limitations of the equipment of their time.   It makes me sad the way muzzle loading seasons have been dumbed down because it is too difficult to learn to use a flintlock or percussion and round balls or bare lead bullets in a traditional muzzleloader.

If you want centerfire primers, jacketted bullets and scopes it's called Modern Rifle Season.

One day someone is going say " It looks like a modern rifle, it shoots like a modern rifle it has the same bullets as a modern rifle, Why do we have a special season for them? "

AWS

[winshooter88]

 

[jackelope]

 

[rasbo]

keep it as primitive as possible,I agree with what was said below..I will not shoot over 50yrds with mine,and its well capable of further forsure but then I might as well go to rifle...

[ICEMAN]

I am not a muzzle hunter.

I would argue that your claim that a scope is a safety enhancement is not a valid arguement. I have never used a scope on a modern rifle to confirm anything. Before I raise my rifle, I have verified all I need to know to feel safe enought to even consider raising my barrel. Binoculars are your way to "confirm" your target, not a scope. Additionally, if a scope is needed to keep guys from shooting button bucks instead of does as you have suggested, these hunters need to get re-educated about how to confirm their quarry prior to raising a gun.  

[nontypical176]

Muzzle loaders always get hammered on these topics.  Now I'm not trying to defend, but theres pretty good argument for both sides.  Look at bow hunting, started out with simple recurves, now its compounds with fancy site pins, peep sites, cams, carbon arrows and such.  Rifle hunters got cool new ammo, greatly improved scopes, and the capability for anybody to go out and get a gun that shoots 500+yards.  Muzzle loaders got inlines, new bullets, and caps.  Pretty safe to say that if you want to hunt traditionally with any weapon, you are gonna be the minority.

Weapon improvements are happening for all.  I think the real reason there even became a seperate muzzle loader season is just a new way to control the hunters.  More money for the DFW, and us hunters know there is one thing they are good at and thats collecting our money.

[Gutpile]

I think the real reason there even became a seperate muzzle loader season is just a new way to control the hunters.

Exactly. Less hunters in the feild giving the traditional guys a better hunt. Sounds good to me.

Sounds like some of you want it all. No hunters in the field (muzzle loader season) but the best muzzleloaders available. Is Shockey really a muzzleloader hunter? I think not. May as well be using a Ruger #1 in my opinion.

I plan on muzzleloader hunting for elk eventually and I sure hope they don't change the laws and make them more liberal like the eastern and midwestern states. Then it'll be a zoo just like the modern season.

[bridgeman]

I'm with keeping ML rules current as they are. You can always mount a scope on a closed breach and hunt Modern Firearm if you like the convenience of a scope on a ML...

[yelp]

If I understand the rules..Currently you can use that equipment on a muzzleloader but only during any modern firearm season/permit but you have to wear orange.  Your placing blame on poor placed shots you assume are a reflection of the way hunters take shots with current muzzleloader allowances.  I can make the same argument for archery and modern..there are plenty of gutshot animals that run around from poor placed shots during those seasons too.  It is the hunters not the equipment that needs the improvement.  Like mentioned above honing hunting skills to get an extra 20 yards, or a simple change to your front sight and using a smaller bead that won't cover up a deer at 75 yds so that shot placement can be selected properly.  Knowing your limitations is all apart of being a responsible hunter. I applaud your enthusiasm, I think that even if they allowed scopes you will still see just as many gut shot deer out there.  

[Whitelightning]

I'm with keeping ML rules current as they are. You can always mount a scope on a closed breach and hunt Modern Firearm if you like the convenience of a scope on a ML...

I agree with if you want to scope and use Modern primers than you should use the rifle during modern season. I have by choice used my M/L during Modern season, don't like Modern season but I have a couple times.

For those of you that cant get past the Inline you need to do some research. The Inline was patented by Polley and others in the early 1800's. Any body know when that Modern item you put on the nipple was invented? Inline action does NOT make a rifle shoot any faster farther or better than a flintlock or sidelock. That other modern thing called rifling made some of that possible.  

[Skillet]

I am 100% against further blurring the line between muzzleloaders and modern rifles in Washington by allowing scopes.  I am not very interested in seeing closed breeches or 209 ignition allowed, as well. 

[AWS]

As fo the coment about weapon improvement and ML should keep up, WE DID THAT ALREADY starting 150 yrs ago, with  centerfire primers, smokeless powder jacketed bullets and scopes.

aws

[bobcat]

To me it's ridiculous to put a scope on a muzzleloader, a rifle that is supposed to be a "primitive" firearm. If they are going to do that they might as well just eliminate the muzzleloader season and add a couple extra days to the modern firearm season to make up for it.

[robodad]

Well ML Hunter it looks like your the only one that thinks hunting in the muzzleloader season with with a modern rifle should be allowed, I agree 100% that their should be no scopes and no closed breeches either it just makes a person work that much harder to have a quality hunt IMO which is the way the season and equipment regulations were intended.

Modern conviences only make a hunter that much more lazy, and the shot placement arguement is poor at best, its all about learning how to adapt to the limitations of your equipment like mentioned earlier and become more efficient as a hunter in practice !!

It would be like asking for crossbows to be legal in archery season