Thinking about a new spotting scope-Leupold 15X30X50mm GR?

[Pathfinder101]

So, we were talking on another thread about whether or not a spotting scope is necessary for mule deer hunting, and I am of the opinion that it absolutely is.  I have an Alpen 15X36X60mm that I always thought was perfectly adequate, until I took it to MT last fall for a mule deer hunt.  I need to upgrade. 
I would like to get a Leupy 12X40X60mm Golden Ring, but $1000 is a little out of my price range.  I see that I can pick up a 15X30X50mm GR for around $400 if I shop around though. 
So, what I was wondering is, does anyone have experience with the 50mm Leupold?  It is less than half the price of the 60mm, but is the 60mm worth twice as much? 
Mostly for open coutry mule deer.  And I need it for this coming hunting season, so please don't tell me to save up for $2,000 Swaros.  I CANT sell that one to the wife.

[thinkingman]

Do you have to have Leupold?  IMHO, there are better choices, for less $$$$

[coop2424]

I have actually been looking at the 12x40x60 GR for a while and you actually can pick it up for about 600 if you look on ebay.  I have seen 2 of them go for that price in the last 3 weeks. 

[whacker1]

is the 50 mm their compact?  I have heard that it is love / hate relationship for the compact gold ring.  Some love it and some hate it.  I haven't personally used it other than looking through it in the store.  If you buy it make sure to give us a review post Montana trip.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Do you have to have Leupold?  IMHO, there are better choices, for less $$$$

I'd like to hear what people's choices would be that compare in a lesser price range. If in another thread.. Fine.   I have not been privelaged to look through pricey glass, but things have come a long way in recent years that I wonder if some of the lesser brands/models are just as good as the 'not top of the line stuff' but pretty damn good stuff.  I am impressed with some of the ZenRay binos but I'm told that their spotter isn't good yet. (better one coming I guess)

A friend made a comment the other day... '$1,000 dollar glass of five years ago can be had for a couple hundred dollars now'.

-Steve

[Pathfinder101]

OK, good stuff.  this is EXACTLY the discussion I was looking for.

1.  Yes, I am a little hung up on Leupold, but not fatally, so if you have a suggestion for "better" glass, for less $$ I am willing to listen. 
2.  I have looked through the Sequoias (the 60mm) and was disappointed.  I don't think they are much better than my Alpen, so if I stick with Leupys, it will be the Golden Rings.
3.  THere are actually 2 Leupy compacts, the "itty-bitty" ones (30mm, I think), that I am not interested in, and the 50mm, which seem to be only a little smaller, and only slightly less magnification than the Alpen I have now.
4.  I have been watching the used 60mm's on ebay, the thing is that my garage burned down and one of my spotting scopes with it.  The insurance company will replace  it, up to about a $450 value, but I don't think they will reimburse me for a $600 scope.... you see my dilemma...?

[MtnMuley]

I'd definately shop around and go with 12-40x60 GR.

[Pathfinder101]

Have you used the 50mm Lance?  You have a 60mm, right?

[whacker1]

I haven't found anything cheaper that can compete with the Gold Ring.  Nikon makes some 80mm bulky scopes that are decent, but I like the 12-40 x 60 gold ring better.
I currently have a Sequoia and only pull it out a few times per year.

[Pathfinder101]

I looked through the 80mm Sequoia and the 80mm Nikon side by side.  Couldn't see the difference between them (at least not inside Cabelas) except for the price (the Nikons were about $100 more).  I just don't see those beasts fitting easily in my daypack, which means they would get left in the truck.

[whacker1]

Yes 80 mm is too big.  Nikon makes several different lines of Spotting Scopes.  This is the nicest I have seen from their product line-up, but huge and not designed as a packable version.

http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/lineup/scopes/III/index.htm
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/nikon.pl?page=nikon8332

$1300 is the line with what I was speaking of which is consistent with the Leupold Gold Ring HD 12 - 40 x 60 currently $1199 via Cabelas. 

[MtnMuley]

Have you used the 50mm ?  You have a 60mm, right?

Yes I have  the 60mm.  My buddy uses the 50mm.  In my opinion, the 60 is superior, and hardly any heavier.  It is a little bulkier, but still much smaller than the competitors 60mm.  My buddy also agrees, and purchased the 60mm and leaves the 50 at home.

[Pathfinder101]

Have you used the 50mm ?  You have a 60mm, right?

Yes I have  the 60mm.  My buddy uses the 50mm.  In my opinion, the 60 is superior, and hardly any heavier.  It is a little bulkier, but still much smaller than the competitors 60mm.  My buddy also agrees, and purchased the 60mm and leaves the 50 at home.

By "superior", do you mean that the clarity of the glass is better than the 50mm?

[MtnMuley]

No.  More light gathering with the 60mm and better scanning of the hillsides with the lower 12 power.  More zoom power with the 40.  The 50mm scope is a great scope, but I feel the 60 beats it in nearly aspect.  Thats just my opinion though.

[Gutpile]

I assume your talking about the compact spotter? I just bought one and LOVE IT. I've only used it once and can't really compare it to a 60mm but it absolutely blows away the other spotter I used to have. It's also very light and compact which is great. I'd like to get a full size eventually but the size was more important to me at this time.

I was glassing a hillside about 7-800 yards away and everything was so clear I just really couldn't believe it.

Just to qualify, I'm no expert on spotters but this gets a big  from me.

[Lowedog]

I have a Leupold GR fixed 25x50mm compact.  I bought it back in the 90's.  At the time it was the only compact they made.  I have never needed anything more.  Haven't looked through the variables out now but mine is very clear.  It's light and I can carry it in my day pack without even noticing it's there.  A lot of times I don't even carry a tripod.  If I need it I will lay it on my pack or whatever I can find to hold it steady.  I don't use it for glassing much but more for identification if I want a closer look after spotting thru binos. 

[Pathfinder101]

THanks guys, like I said, just the kind of discussion I wanted to have.
MtnMuley, I get what you mean about the 60mm being better in almost every aspect (better magnification range, better light gathering, etc...), I am just wondering if there is $600 worth of difference between the two scopes?
As I said said before, I can pick up the 50mm for around $400, but the 60mm is gonna run a grand unless I can locate a used one.

[a_bess]

I have been searching for a few weeks and reading as many reviews as possible. It was between the Leupold compact and the Nikon compact. The reviews were great for both of them. After going back and forth, I went with the Nikon. It is larger in diameter (more light), more magnification, roughly the same size, and I like "view through" protective case". 

http://www.outdoors4less.net/proddetail.asp?prod=57785&product=nikon_prostaff_spotting_scope_1648x65_realtree__outfit

[MtnMuley]

Are you interested in buying my 60mm pathfinder?  It's in perfect shape, and has been in the form fitting case since day one.  I'd like $700............

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks a bess.  I looked at this scope, and I really wouldn't consider a 65mm scope a "compact".  It is actually bigger than the Alpen I have right now.  I did compare this Nikon Scope with the 60mm Leupold Sequoia, and I did like it better than the Sequoia.

[a_bess]

Thanks a bess.  I looked at this scope, and I really wouldn't consider a 65mm scope a "compact".  It is actually bigger than the Alpen I have right now.  I did compare this Nikon Scope with the 60mm Leupold Sequoia, and I did like it better than the Sequoia.

The diameter is obviously larger, but the length is the same as the Leupold compact scope. They are both 11 to 11.5 inches long and the Sequoia you are referring to is 15 inches. I will sacrifice having  a pound of more weight in my pack for the Nikons.

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks a bess.  I looked at this scope, and I really wouldn't consider a 65mm scope a "compact".  It is actually bigger than the Alpen I have right now.  I did compare this Nikon Scope with the 60mm Leupold Sequoia, and I did like it better than the Sequoia.

The diameter is obviously larger, but the length is the same as the Leupold compact scope. They are both 11 to 11.5 inches long and the Sequoia you are referring to is 15 inches. I will sacrifice having  a pound of more weight in my pack for the Nikons.

a bess, I am wondering, did you compare the 65mmNikon with the 50mm Gold Ring?  I know the Nikon has better glass than the Sequoia, but I am wondering if it has comparable glass to the Gold Ring.

[a_bess]

I have looked through the Leupold GR and it was as expected...Good! I just wish it had a little more power. I personally have not looked through the Nikon out in the field, just outside of a local shop when I was browsing. I know someone that has used both in the field and their opinion was that the quality of glass is very comparable. So, I went with the additional power and larger diameter for the same price!

[Jamieb]

keep an eye on Craigslist.
I see around two 12x40x60's a year go for $500.
I bought mine off craigslist for $500., bought new by a old guy that died without ever useing it, his wife listed the spotter, a leupold tripod, and a soft case for $300. I couldnt take it for $300 and feel good about it, $500 was all the cash I had on me.

[Bean Counter]

Pathfinder: don't be a vajayjay.  If you're looking to upgrade a non-HD spotting scope, why would you go with another non-HD model? IMHO, you should save until you can afford HD glass. If you buy cheap, you're going to buy twice.  Save until you can get something you will be happy with for a long time. 

Someone started a Leupold HD vs. non-HD thread but it got    I love Leupold's customer service and I have confidence that the HD model is probably a lot better. 

Talk about Nikon: I found the bulky/heavy Nikon 82mm ED scope on eBay with a 30x wide angle eyepiece for just under $800. I couldn't pass that up. Its a bit tough to carry long distances, but it makes all the difference in open areas.  Clarity is incredible.  I love the wrap around focus ring. Go with a Swarovski if you have the money. If you're willing to sacrifice 5% quality for 50%+ savings, I would buy the Nikon again in a heart beat. 

What I really love about the looks of the Leupold is the compact design. Looks like if you got a good quality monopod you'd have a backpacking setup that you could carry for 10 miles of hiking with the rest of your gear. 

If you really want to hear some pros analyze spotting scopes, go to a bird watching forum. They have entire discussion boards dedicated to them. Some of the birders prefer Nikon to Swaro. YMMV.

[Bean Counter]

http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/product.asp?PRDCODE=1082-7554NIK&REFID=FR My scope for $818
http://www.outdooroutfitters.com/nikon-82mm-fieldscope-ed-straight-body-demo.aspx My scope for $1,089

Disclaimer: I have neither a financial interest in either of the above two links nor have I ever shopped with them. Just a quick Google search result.

[Bean Counter]

...bought new by a old guy that died without ever useing it, his wife listed the spotter, a leupold tripod, and a soft case for $300. I couldnt take it for $300 and feel good about it, $500 was all the cash I had on me.

Jamie,

Good for you. As the book of James reads: "true religion is this: to care for widows and orphans in their distress." 

[actionshooter]

I haven't looked at the Nikon, I'm curious about that one. I do have the Lupy 15-30x50 and its ok. My complaints are the power and the focus adjustments are too sticky, the glass is ok. I like the lightweight of the scope, but I'll have a swaro 20-60x65 someday 

[Pathfinder101]

Pathfinder: don't be a vajayjay. 

Thanks Beancounter....   The only time I need to hear that is when it comes to money...

I have looked through the HD glass and the non-HD, and I don't know that the HD is that much of a difference (at least not in the Leupolds).  I'll take another look at the Nikon ED.  I like the Leupold Kenai too, it's got that same focus ring...

[Bean Counter]

LOL ok. Just looking out for ya, guy 

Its one thing if you don't have a spotter yet and all you can possibly squeeze out is $400. However, since you have one already, I'd hate to see you wanting to upgrade again in another season or two. 

Oooooh yeah, the Kenai. I would love to read a review of that one.  It could be a better buy than the Nikon.  Again, check out some birding forums. I became a member on one and pretended to like birding--I got some great advice. Those people can really explain what HD/ED does for your optics in low light and over long distances. Best wishes and let us all know what you decide.

[Pathfinder101]

I would almost venture a guess that the Nikon ED 60mm and the Leupold Kenai are the same scope.  Same color, same features, and I know the Kenai is not actually made in the Leupold factory in Oregon...  They're both pretty new (you can't find a used one anywhere), and go for the same price.
I just bought a pair of Zen Ray ED binos (got them in the mail yesterday), and I am VERY impressed.  I wish Zen Ray made a good spotter.  For now, I am going to tend towards your advice, not be a "VaJayJay", and save up for the 60mm Leupy Gold Ring....
Even though there's a 50mm GR on Ebay right now, sitting at $275, I could afford it right now, and I would have it in time for this deer season...
You're right, be strong.  I'll just wind up replacing it in a year....

[JackOfAllTrades]

You might shoot a message at ZRS-8x42. Someone on here told me that ZenRay was developing a better spotter earlier this year. I don't know when it could hit the market if that's true.  I noticed that the Sedona, http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/spottingscopes.html, price dropped this summer and now they are listed as out of stock so I'm wondering if they discontinued production and are ready to market something new.  I'd still like to check out a Sedona; at 80mm it has to be pretty bright even with 'decent' glass. Does it have foggy edges at 60x? The Sedona weighs more than twice as much as a GoldRing 15-30x50 too. That could be good, or could be bad.

-Steve

[Pathfinder101]

Good points.  If I am going to wait until I save up the $$ for the 60mm Golden Ring, I guess that will give Zen Ray plenty of time to develop a new spotting scope.  The only exception to that is if I find a smokin' deal on a used 60mm Golden Ring.

[whacker1]

I have been pushing Charles on the ZenRay spotter and as of now they don't have an ED spotting scope.  He said they were developing one and that they were hoping to release this summer, which didn't appear to happen (came from conversation last spring).  He elluded to the point that those that are happy with the ED binoculars would not be happy with the Sedona, as it doesn't provide the clarity or light capabilities of the ED.  He is also trying to keep the cost down on the process, so cost might be part of the challenge.  He said Hunt-Wa would be one of the first to know when the product does become available.  I am saving my pesos in the mean time and using my Windriver Sequoia a few times per year (lame).

[Pathfinder101]

Well, I just found out that I will be headed up to the Colville area this weekend with PathfinderJR.  Shoot some grouse, and probably try to put him on a bear (if it's not too late-buddy up there says it might be).  Will give me a chance to put the Zen Ray ED2s through the paces.  I'll file a report when I get back...

[257 Wby Mag]

Great little scope for the $$. I've had mine for about 8months, I think it'll surprise ya.

[grundy53]

I would almost venture a guess that the Nikon ED 60mm and the Leupold Kenai are the same scope.  Same color, same features, and I know the Kenai is not actually made in the Leupold factory in Oregon...  They're both pretty new (you can't find a used one anywhere), and go for the same price.
I just bought a pair of Zen Ray ED binos (got them in the mail yesterday), and I am VERY impressed.  I wish Zen Ray made a good spotter.  For now, I am going to tend towards your advice, not be a "VaJayJay", and save up for the 60mm Leupy Gold Ring....
Even though there's a 50mm GR on Ebay right now, sitting at $275, I could afford it right now, and I would have it in time for this deer season...
You're right, be strong.  I'll just wind up replacing it in a year....

Lol. That's too funny I started a similar post yesterday (didn't see this one) and ended up buying that 50mm GR off eBay.

[Pathfinder101]

I would almost venture a guess that the Nikon ED 60mm and the Leupold Kenai are the same scope.  Same color, same features, and I know the Kenai is not actually made in the Leupold factory in Oregon...  They're both pretty new (you can't find a used one anywhere), and go for the same price.
I just bought a pair of Zen Ray ED binos (got them in the mail yesterday), and I am VERY impressed.  I wish Zen Ray made a good spotter.  For now, I am going to tend towards your advice, not be a "VaJayJay", and save up for the 60mm Leupy Gold Ring....
Even though there's a 50mm GR on Ebay right now, sitting at $275, I could afford it right now, and I would have it in time for this deer season...
You're right, be strong.  I'll just wind up replacing it in a year....

Lol. That's too funny I started a similar post yesterday (didn't see this one) and ended up buying that 50mm GR off eBay.

Well then I wont tell you about the one I saw in the Cabelas Bargain Cave yesterday for $245... Sorry...
I took the 50mm outside and spent a little time looking through it.  The glass is very nice, but like MntMuely says, the magnification is just not enough for what I need.  I'll keep saving for the Gold Ring 60mm.  I did look through the Nikon 60mm ED and liked it a lot though...  hmm.... more to think about.... Cabelas didn't have a 60mm Leupy for me to compare it and the Nikon sode by side (or the Kenai).  Maybe next time I am up there...

[BLUEBULLS]

doesn't anyone use/like Vortex?

[Pathfinder101]

doesn't anyone use/like Vortex?

The guy I hunted Montana with last year was using one (a 60mm).  It seemed the be on about the same par with my Alpen.  Better than nothing, but grainy at the long ranges we were using it for.  Seemed like if I was having a hard time judging a buck, he was having the same trouble.  We both vowed to upgrade...

[whacker1]

Bumped into some Moose hunters this weekend that were looking at a drainage, and they both had the Carl Zeiss Spotter - straight version. 
http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A80033F8E4/?Open

I have never had a chance to look through a Zeiss spotter in the field.

I am not sure, but I liked that one about the same, possibly more than the Swarovski.  1200 yards 45 inch moose looked pretty darn clear.  Makes the motivation for finding a good spotter increase significantly.  Sorry, I upped the price range, by about $2500 in one post.  My Sequoia wouldn't have done us anygood.

[Bean Counter]

+1 for the straight model of ANY brand of scope. My Nikon is angled and its a bit of a pain trying to keep a low profile on top of a hill and angle it downward at the big bucks. 

[whacker1]

Yeah, I don't like the angled scopes either.  Very difficult to acquire your target in the Spotter.  Downhill sucks the worst.  Only solution is to role them sideways to not have to stand up in the skyline

[Pathfinder101]

OK, I am going to give this thread a bump, because things just changed.

I just got back the estimate from the insurance adjuster.  They valued my Alpen spotter that burned up at $800 (   whatever, I am not going to argue with them... ).

So, here's my dillema;  I can get a new Leupold Kenai 80mm for $800.  I have looked thru them, I like them, for an 80mm scope they are not too bulky or cumbersome.  I think I would be perfactly happy with a Kenai.
For $200 more, I could get the Golden Ring.  Less magnification, smaller objective, but of course less weight, and (I assume) better glass...    
So that really is my question;  does anyone have any experience with the Kenai?  I only looked  thru one inside the store, and I haven't looked thru side by side with the 60mm Golden Ring (I will before I buy of course). 
 ALso, I could probably pick up a used 60mm Golden Ring on Ebay or Craigslist for $800 or a bit less....
Anyone have any input concerning these two scopes?

[actionshooter]

Looks like you made out like a bandit. 
 I'd have to vote for the golden ring

[Pathfinder101]

Well, in light of this new information, I think I am going to start a new thread; Kenai or Golden Ring.