good day 4 the tribe

[remington300mag]

elk to the white guy is a specialty. elk to us is dinner, lunch and breakfast.

If this is true then why do so many of you pass on opportunities to harvest cows or lesser bulls to kill trophy size bulls? 

  Also, I love the argument that "I eat elk everyday, I don't eat beef, breakfast lunch and dinner." Well I would love to eat elk everyday of the year as well, I know that a lot of guys on here and there entire families would like to eat elk every day....If the opportunity came, I would never buy beef either! There are also a lot of white guys on here that's economic situation is just as bad as the tribes, but we still have to pay for beef...... maybe as a collective group, we should all just go up and slaughter the Colokum herd...... I mean we would eat the animals! Nope, as a responsible race, we will try to manage the herd only to see them get decimated every year!

[runamuk]

elk to the white guy is a specialty. elk to us is dinner, lunch and breakfast.

If this is true then why do so many of you pass on opportunities to harvest cows or lesser bulls to kill trophy size bulls? 

  Also, I love the argument that "I eat elk everyday, I don't eat beef, breakfast lunch and dinner." Well I would love to eat elk everyday of the year as well, I know that a lot of guys on here and there entire families would like to eat elk every day....If the opportunity came, I would never buy beef either! There are also a lot of white guys on here that's economic situation is just as bad as the tribes, but we still have to pay for beef...... maybe as a collective group, we should all just go up and slaughter the Colokum herd...... I mean we would eat the animals! Nope, as a responsible race, we will try to manage the herd only to see them get decimated every year!

I agree I only wish I could eat elk instead of beef...but here in WA I have to hunt it and it is limited and if I ever get one in my lifetime...yes ONE I will be thrilled...in Idaho if I had the money I could buy it from the elk farm down the road here I can buy bison from that farm next door again if I have the money mostly I eat cheap beef and chicken not because its my favorite but because its what I can afford and unlike my pioneering ancestors game is no longer free for the taking on an as needed basis I live in a new time and have to live within the rules of this society.
Hey I wonder if I start a religion and it required wild game as a legitimate part of my practice if my religious freedoms would over rule the state 

[Coastal_native]

elk to the white guy is a specialty. elk to us is dinner, lunch and breakfast.

If this is true then why do so many of you pass on opportunities to harvest cows or lesser bulls to kill trophy size bulls? 

Good question,

I can only speak for myself on this one though...Depending on if I'm hunting for myself or as a designated hunter, I typically prefer to harvest mature bulls....rut hunting elk is fun and i like trophies too, just like any other hunter.  If I'm hunting for some one else, I usually shoot the first branch bull I see.  I'm not big on cow hunting...It's been documented by just about everyone that has studied it over here...Roosevelt elk have a high rate of natural cow mortality, thats one of the reasons we don't always have cow seasons in our areas.  I choose to harvest branch bulls over spikes because during the time of year I hunt (late august-september) they have pretty good fat content still and they have about twice as much meat on them as a spike.  Again, most of my hunting occurs on the reservation...and not to be insensitive, but part of it is because I have non tribal friends and family that hunt off reservation and every elk I harvest off reservation before the state season starts is an opportunity I take away from them...and I still get out and hunt the state seasons with them, in fact I'll be out there during MF.

As for the "taste" argument that's been thrown around...the toughest elk steak I ever ate was from a young healthy cow I harvested in December (only cow I've ever harvested), the best steak I've ever ate was from an old reverted rutted out bull that barely had any teeth left.  Not that that holds true all of the time though, just my experience.  Spikes always taste good, I just don't really enjoy hunting them...and that's one of the reasons we do this right? because we enjoy it.

These comments are not intended to offend anyone, I'm just trying to answer questions honestly to help you guys get into the mind of tribal hunter.

[Lowedog]

CN, how many elk do you shoot a year on average?  I know you have already posted your regs but it sounds like from your last post that you shoot elk for others also.

[Coastal_native]

The last several years, as I've matured as a hunter, I've been selected as a DH more and more because of how well I care for peoples meat...(i.e. i don't just drop off a whole elk to an elderly lady and say here you go, I bone it out...butcher it...what ever they ask for...at no cost ofcourse).  I would say I average 2-3 elk per year.  I have a wife and an infant in my household and we probably eat a whole elk every year, maybe 1 1/2 at most.  Often times if I still have meat in the freezer at the beginning of the season I will share my elk with extended family as well...my mom still has a big family to take care of at home. The most elk I've harvested in a year was 4 and that included a ceremonial elk for a large funeral.  I have saved every set of antlers I've ever harvested, including raghorns...like I said I love trophies too, I even salvage them from peoples yards that don't put the same value on antlers as I do.

[Coastal_native]

If your management angency was going to give you the opportunity to harvest extra animals for your family or other people in need...would you not go about it the same way I do?  Like I said in previous posts...we know the impacts of our harvest level and we are not decimating elk populations over here, I can assure you that.

[6x6rack]

Coastal,

All of us would rather hunt a branched bull, all of us love to hunt the rut. But since we respect the health of the herds we sometimes disignate areas that can't happen.

Why dont you throw us a bone here Coastal so we can see if you are just here like other indians before you to rub your privledges "poaching" in our faces.

Please read Colockum's article (Available on his other thread you have been viewing) and answer to yourself HONESTLY about the health of the Colockum herd. Then, as a Tribal Game Manager ask yourself what is the issue affecting the herd. Then apply your own words and reasoning...why you choose to only shoot Bulls (you suposably have sick cows in your neck of the woods, premature death rates???) so you only shoot bulls to keep the herd healthy...another conversation I'm sure is headed your way. Anyway read Colockums article and answer us one simple question. Yes or No, no waggin' the dog.

Should the Yakima tribe be harvesting all the big bulls out of the Colockum Herd given it's present condition. Yes or NO

[remington300mag]

I most certainly would not CN.....I would not shoot 4 trophy bulls a year! If I cared about the herd at all, I would kill 1 trophy bull, and then manage the herd, taking out what ever animal needs to be taken out, weather it be a rag horn or a cow.....

Seriously, why don't the tribes of Washington look what other tribes around the nation have done.....Like the Apache on White Mountain?!?! When it comes to the Yakima's, they have a hell of a lot of PRIME elk and mule deer habitat that if managed correctly would be a huge money maker for them, not to mention the trophy potential! Fact is, they are too lazy, they would rather bleed off of the government, rather than take care of themselves!

[Special T]

If you re read his post guys he didn't say he killed 4 trophy animals he said he likes to likes to kill branch animals because they are bigger(boddied) but he likes to hunt for horns for himself... Killling cows on the OP isn't the same as killing cows on the Colokum. 

[Lowedog]

If your management angency was going to give you the opportunity to harvest extra animals for your family or other people in need...would you not go about it the same way I do?  Like I said in previous posts...we know the impacts of our harvest level and we are not decimating elk populations over here, I can assure you that.

Are you issued tags for each elk and do you have to report your harvests to both your tribal agency and WDFW or does your agency share harvest statistics with WDFW?  If tags are issued are they purchased?  

WDFW does issue second deer tags in some areas.  I don't apply for those.  I would help a disabled hunter harvest an animal if it was someone close to me but I wouldn't use it as an opportunity to trophy hunt.  As far as shooting extra animals for my family or other people in need...if my family needs more than one then another member of my family has the opportunity to purchase tags and hunt and they do.  I can't see harvesting animals for others in need, it is not the way our system is set up or ever has been so it is hard to fathom doing so.  

[Special T]

REM the Quinalt have a pretty good thing going with bear hunting.... Seen some of thier hunts on tv. 

[tlbradford]

To be fair to Coastal Hunter he is not as familiar with the Yakima Indians, the Colokum herd, and the game management, or lack thereof, as others who have studied it extensively.  He has admitted this, and I appreciate the fact that he doesn't rush to deliver a judgment on something he is not well informed on.  This is only the second tribal member I can remember off the top of my head who appears to be on the side of intelligent game management.  Please treat him with respect since he has done so with all of us thus far.

Coastal Hunter - just to reiterate this, since it has been said many times, we are angry at the tribal policies that allow overharvest, non-cooperation with our WDFW Dept in managing herds, blatant abuse of hunting rights by certain tribal members, and lack of prosecution for tribes that actually break laws.  We are not hateful of Indians, are hateful of policies that allow our fish and game to be raped.

Speaking for myself, there are some members that I can't stand.  Specifically Whitefoot.  This is not because he is Indian, it is because he pisses on our heads and tries to convince us that it is raining.  We are told that he hunts for meat, but we see several trophy racks at Sportsman's shows with his name on it.  

So to all of you involved in this discussion, make sure you are directing your anger in the proper direction and keep it respectful.

Thanks,
Travis

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack,

I've read the article and it is well written...In my opinion that heard is not being coomananged as it should be, or even really managed at all...I'm not here to rub anything in your faces, hopefully i've not said anything that makes you think that.  I'm here because I like hunting, I want the hunting tradition to continue to be possible, and I live in Washington.

rem

I'm not sure how to respond, I don't think you understood my post.  We manage our heards well, we have excellent bull/cow ratios within the boundaries of our reservation, we have good bull age composition (I never have trouble finding a mature bull), we have low calf survival for some reason, another reason why we try not to shoot cows (probably because we have a serious black bear infestation), and our heards are not on the decline.  Selecting mature bulls in our area is good management, and they are abundant.

[Coastal_native]

Thanks to the last few comments asking for respect. 

I think my mistake was trying to project a clean tribal hunting image accros the board in a thread that was aimed at discussing one situation in which people are of the opinion that a tribe is guilty of mismanagement in a specific area.

The broader argument that tribes mismanage all together should probably be discussed somewhere else. 

[remington300mag]

Ok Coastal, I understand that your herd may in fact be stronger than the Colokum herd.....and I understand that it is easier to find a mature bull! So, what I would ask you is this.......

Would it be better to go out on your land and shoot 4 mature big 6x6 bulls......or go out and kill one mature 6x6....and harvest 3 bulls that are considered to be management bulls?!?! IE: rag horns, 6x5,5x5,4x5...and so on?!?! these bulls are genetically inferior....harvesting them would only make your trophy potential greater! I too understand if you have a large calf mortality rate that you would not want to harvest cows.... but this is not so much the case in the Colokum....I also understand that the Colokum herd is not the same as yours.... What you do need to understand though is this....not only are the Yakima's up in the Colokum shooting every branched bull they can see from the road, but they are also shooting them off of game reserves, feed lots, winter grounds, public high ways......

And just to hit on what Travis said, I do greatly appreciate the conversation....it is nice to get some insight from a tribesman that seems to care about the herds.....Oh, and if you need some help culling some of the bears....just let me know!!! LOL